June 3, 2009 - 7:15pm
understanding ounces--basic question
Hello
I am Canadian, and would like to understand ounces.
There are fluid ounces for measuring volume, and avoirdupois ounces for measuring mass
So on this site for example, when recipes are posted in ounces, are all ingredients stated in ounces "ounces by weight" (avoirdupois), unless otherwise specified?
Thanks,
Pietro
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My assumption would be that if ingredients are listed in ounces, then they are avoirdupois ounces for measuring dry goods and fluid ounces for measuring liquids. The main counter to that assumption would be if it were clear from the recipe that everything was measured in terms of mass or weight. If there is one volumetric measure (cups of flour, teaspoons of salt, cups of water, etc) then I would assume that fluids measured in ounces are volumetric as well.
So if a recipe is stated only in ounces, I should presume all ingredients are expressed in ounces by weight? Even water?
For reference, I'm refering to this recipe: http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/6427/chocolate-porter-bread
Butter would be weight in oz., as would flour, sugar, the dry ingredients, though I've occasionally seen sugar referred to as 'liquid'; just ignore that and think of sugar as weight in oz. The liquids measured in oz., are fluid oz. If you see, for example, 4 oz. butter, melted, then I'd weigh the butter (or slice it off as per the wrapper), then melt it and use it; don't think of it as a liquid. That's what I do, and I'm also Canadian, and have been baking for years.
Basically, anyway. A pound of butter is a weight, so 8 oz is a half pound, 4 ounces a quarter pound, etc, all weights. Until, that is, you get to three tablespoons of butter where things flip again since tablespoons are volume measures.
It makes little sense. Then you have to start accounting for 16th of things.
But go by liquid or not liquid and you'll probably be fine.
You folks who are fortunate to have the metric system as a normal part of your every day life should count your blessings. Americans repeatedly rejected the idea of converting to the metric system a number of times since I was a kid - looks like the majority here just don't get it.
I'd suggest you find a good conversion chart, convert all of the "American" recipe ingredients into something manageable (your system is perfect IMO) and forget about trying to figure out why we do what we do; we can't even figure it out so some of us just use a dip/level/pour method and hope for the best.
Hi,
I have had this problem very recently and researched it quite a bit.
Water's weight in fluid ounces is very close to its weight in avoirdupois ounces. Unless you are dealing with very large volumes/weights, the difference is fairly inconsequential. Obviously, if the density of the liquid is different (e.g., honey), then the weight/volume discrepancy will be greater.
I meticulously converted the fluid ounces in my Leader "Bread Alone" recipe to avoirdupois ounces to discover that I had to add back a large weight of flour to get the dough to its correct consistency. When I use weight instead of volume to measure, it works out just fine.
Therefore, no matter what the recipe *says* one must still use your own judgement in the end.
Lastly, and much to my shock, I converted volume to mass and compared my 2 cup pyrex measuring jug to the properly converted weights. Low and behold, it was off....by 10% or more! Caveat emptor!
My 2 cents worth...
MommaT
There's an important caveat, here. While the other posters are right that ounces, when dealing with a liquid, are normally fluid ounces, that's *not the case with bread recipes*, at least artisnal recipes that are also expressed using bakers percentages... you know, the primary subject of this website. :)
When dealing with these kinds of recipes (ones expressed in weights and bakers percentages, like those in the BBA), if you see ounces anywhere, it's weight. Period. Fluid ounces are a measure of volume, and so they'd never be used in a bread recipe, which uses percentages and weights to express the amount for *all* ingredients, liquid or dry.
So if you're making bread, break out the scale, and measure *everything* with it.
I couldn't agree more. I grew up cooking but did very little baking. Until I discovered the bakers percentage system most of my baking ended in disappointment. Given a recipe with only bakers percentages you don't need anything but a scale. 57% remains a constant, whether you're working with 100 grams of flour or 500 grams of flour. IMO, there is no better method for preparing baked goods.
Yeah, I guess this is what I was subconsciously getting at.... I always see bread recipes expressed in grams for all ingredients... and so when I see them expressed in ounces across the board, I was feeling like they could all intend weight...
"A pint's a pound the whole world 'round" is an old saying that actualy holds fairly true and is quite helpful for measuring most things when you aren't quite sure. So a pint (2 cups) of water is both 16 fluid ounces and 16 ounces by weight. It won't help with flour, but for all intents and purposes holds true for water, milk, butter, oil, molassas and syrups, even things like groud beef. Just thought it might help.
Just to further confuse things, an Imperial pint is 20 oz, so the saying for that measurement becomes "A pint of water's a pound and a quarter". Not too important if you're using only American cookbooks, but if you have any old UK recipes, you may need to keep this in mind.
That old saying is cute, but it's a fallacy.
If we're looking for accuracy, a pint of water weighs 1.04375 pounds, or 16.7 ounces.
A pint of milk weighs 17 ounces and a pint of molasses or honey weighs 23 ounces.
Source: "How Baking Works," by Paula Figoni. You can find it in Google books.
I didn't say it was perfect, just helpful. And if you are really trying for accuracy, things like molasses, honey and maple syrup can range "widely" (by your definition) in weight between one type and another, the weight of milk varies according to whether it is whole, skim, or somewhere in the middle, and if you are weighing something like flour, the weight is contingent on how much moisture is in it when you buy it, how it is stored, and depending on the latter, potentially how humid your home is. Even an "exact science" is not that exact and still relys on things like the bakers intuition regarding how the bread should look and feel.