March 19, 2009 - 5:14am
need help with pain ordinaire recipe from 'village baker' plz
hi all, ive been reading 'the village baker' past couple days and researching simple white french bread recipes on this site. there is heaps of information, maybe thats why i am feeling a bit confused, lol.
i thought i'd try pain ordinaire to start off and try it a few times to perfect my skills. i was going to make it in my kitchen aid using a direct method and mixing on low speed for 10-12 mins. however, i just read a lesson post on autolyse and now im not sure exactly how to go about it. i want to try this asap (u know how it is when u just can't wait and find urself baking at midnight).
i would really appreciate any feedback, tips, advice. thanks heaps!
Share
Hi, yes, I think we all know how it feels.... :-) I make this a lot, along with the compagnon bread. I use my starter as a base and it always comes out well..... (I don't actually have the patience for the direct method). Is there anything specific you need to know about it?
Paz,
Ivy, ny
i would'v thought the direct method would be the easiest (but maybe not the tastiest?) can i ask how you use ur starter. i don;t have one yet, that was next on my list. i did start an apple starter two days ago for the pain aux pommes (first try) but thats specifically for that bread. are you familiar with the book? ive had it for ages but only tried pain sur poolish posted by floyd on this site. they turned out flat coz i deflated them while slashing but i loved the taste.
what i was wanting to know was which technique should i be using eg, should i autolyse instead of a long knead? do you make the recipe into baguettes or rounds, do you have any pics of the process?
i haven't looked at the compagnon yet (i guess thats also a variation of the recipe?). i first wanted to try what ortiz referred to as the universal recipe for french bread.
by the way i found the recipe to be exactly like that of no knead ABin5 dough which i always have to have in the fridge for quick pizza, desert, anything really. so i was going to try more traditional methods and compare taste etc.
thanks, hopefully il get there one day then i can help answer beginner's questions too!lol.
but i do use the autolyse technique and a KA when making my breads. I mix together my flour(s), liquids, yeast or starter (and anything else with the exception of salt) until they form a shaggy mass. I cover the bowel with plastic wrap and let it sit for 20-30 minutes. I then go back and add the salt and mix on 2 or 3 for about 8 minutes or so, adjusting with flour or water if needed to get a smooth, tacky but not sticky dough. This may not technically be the exact method of autolyse, and I sure someone will pop in and correct me if I've erred.
Betty
thanks i thought autolyse was just with the flour and water. i'l try it. do i do a stretch and fold or is a few mins of kneading enough. which is better for the bread?
thanks, any hints, tips, advice welcome.
Yes, I believe you're right. It is just the flour and water. As I said, this is what I do and I'm certainly no expert. It does work for me though. Whether to stretch and fold for me depends on the type of dough I'm working with. A slack dough-stretch and fold. A stiffer dough I'd knead.
Betty
That's my understanding too! Stretch and folds help gluten development of slack doughs. --Pamela
I was just checking in BBA (pg. 58).
--Pamela
thanks everyone i think im starting to get it, so if i take the recipe for pain ordinaire from village baker, for example, (also, this is the universal recipe for french bread):
mix the flour + water. rest 20-30mins.
mix in everything else ~ 4-5 mins.
rest first proof: either overnight or (he says 1 1/2 - 2hrs til doubled)
okay at this point do i do any stretch and folds? ( does it depend on the dough whether slack/stiff?)
ortiz says to punch it back and let rise again 30 -45mins. (so maybe i should do one stretch and fold towards end of first proof instead of this step, is this correct?)
he then divides dough in half and one of the halves in half again so recipe makes two baguettes one boule.
he then shapes each piece into tight balls. rest 15 mins. (is this the pre shape? should i preshape the baguettes differently to the boule?)
okay, loaves are then shaped, left to rise ~45mins - 1hr till doubled, scored and baked in preheated 450degreesF oven, (i think thats 230 C), 20 - 25 mins for baguettes and 40 - 45 mins for the boule (till golden brown and hollow sounding).
okay, ive tried to sum up the process. is my understanding correct? i guess this is typical for french bread recipes?
does anyone have anything to add, or correct any mistakes ive made in the recipe.
thanks heaps!
My approach would be to mix everything together, including the yeast, let it sit for 5 minutes, knead for a few minutes, let it rest 20 mintues, S&F, rest 20 minutes, S&F, refrigerator overnight. --Pamela
thanks, appreciate it. sounds good. will give it a try. can't wait to get started.
anybody else feel free to jump in, i love learning bout this stuff.
thanks.