March 5, 2009 - 11:08pm
How much rye can a rye take?
I made the Bread Bible rye today and it was quite good, but I would like a tad more rye flavor. I don't have the recipe handy right now, but it was something like like 3/4 cup rye flour to 3 1/4 cups bread flour (with some in a pre ferment). I think it would be good with a little more rye flour, but I also know that rye can be kind of cantankerous. Two questions
1. How much more rye could I sub for bread flour without risking a brick?
2. When I sub, should I be replacing equal volumes or equal weights of flour? Rye and bread flour are not the same density.
Thanks
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Measured by weights, when the rye content of your dough is approaching 40% of the total flour weight, the dough should be acidified. You can achieve this by either using a rye sourdough (your best option), a stiff biga or pate fermentee (works great) or even using some yoghurt for part of the liquid.
Here's a really great 40% rye made with a pate fermentee. Also, have a look at Christiane's sourdough page. That's what you want to avoid ;-)
Thanks. It sounds like I could up the rye in here now pretty substantially with no real tweaking. I'd like to get a sourdough starter going, but don't have one right now.
As you increase the rye content, you should probably also increase the hydration of the dough, as rye is a pretty thirsty flour. Depending on your flours, a hydration of 68% - 70% sounds reasonable for a 40% rye.
I too have RLB bread bible, and I whould have to say that she is far to afraid of rye flour for her own good. Her rye is (I think) 17% rye flour wich is very close to a standard jewish rye. But my opinion is that a loaf can not be considered a rya bread unless it has at least 1/3 rye flour. Even with 1/3 rye flour you can treat the dough like wheat bread, maybe a bit stickier though.
Sourdough is essential in rye making! So get one going!
You already have rye flour and that is key to succeding in growing starter fast. Check out gaaarps starter 101 thread.
i've been playing with 100% rye breads and have found that 80% hydration creates the best loaf. things to remember: first, it's best to develop the sour over at least two (preferably 3+) days. you need the acid. second, when shaping the loaves, be as gentle with the dough as possible so as not to degas. the idea here is to preserve as much of the spongy structure as you can, since rye structure is based on complex carb chains, which are more fragile than gluten. third, start hot and steamy and then let the loaves bake slowly at low temp, which lowers the gumminess of the bread. i usually bake mine at 475 for the first 10 minutes, with lots of steam to promote spring, then continue baking at 225 for another 2-3 hours. finally, don't cut into the bread for at least 2 days. for some reason, ryes do much better with time.
Hi Elagins,
I am very much a novice baker but had great results with a no knead rye and white wheat bread raised 18 hours with a rye starter. I would like to try all rye and am wondering if you do your all rye 3 day rise in the fridge or room temperature. My 14 hour rise with about 70 grams starter was at room temp. with about an hour in the proof basket before baking in Romertopf.
Hi there: I am wanting to hone my rye skills this year, and I have found Hamelman extremely helpful. If you can get your hands on his book, he has a couple of very informative sections on rye, rye flours, percentages, and many nice formulas.
By the way - I made his sourdough rye with walnuts last week and absolutely couldn't stop eating it.
Good luck!
karladiane
When I first purchased good quality rye flour that had not been sitting on supermarket shelves forever, I found the quality of my rye breads increasing..I am currently using an organic coarse rye flour produced by Lindley Mills in North Carolina..This is a great flour that I manage to get a local artisan bakery to sell me in 20 lb. bags..Similar quality flours from other millers should yield similarly good results..I have found that I like a small amount of this coarse rye flour in a lot of the white breads that I make..It adds a hearty, chewyness to these white breads that I like..
As others have pointed out, proper hydration is essential with rye breads..It took me a while to get used to the notion that I had to work rye doughs wetter than I did wheat doughs..Once a baker comes to terms with the thought that "Sticky is OK" as regards to rye doughs, then their learning curve will progress mush faster..I am still learning to deal with sticky rye doughs..
Bruce
I'll look for the Hammelman book.
AFAIK, the only rye flour i've seen around is Bob's Red Mill, which seems decent enough, though it also strikes me as a tad expensive.
depending on where you live, you might be able to find rye flour at Whole Foods or Henry's Market, or some similar organic/healthy foods market.
but alas, the closest one is 150 miles away.
Just want to pass on the rye flour info - I took a chance on naturalgrocers.com and ordered some white whole wheat flour and rye flour off thier website. Both were excellent quality and I believe milled somewhere near the midwest breadbasket. Available in 2 lb. bags as well as larger sizes. Thing is, shipping is so expensive everywhere but they use UPS ground so I got a sizable order together and ordered as much as I thought I could use in 6-8 mos. That brought the shipping cost down. Not great but better than...well, you know. BTW, my last rye loaf was to jump for!
Breadhound