Solano in Brazil and I have the same issue: Trying to make a first class bread from third world flour. It’s been frustrating, to the point that physically, I’ve given up trying but mentally, I’m still looking for answers.
That led me to this post from back in 2018: https;//www.thefreshloaf.com/node/57264/tips-achieving-open-crumb-all-purpose-ap-flour
A baker by the name of Matteo Festo documented some techniques aimed at handling weak flour. (The only flour available to me is pastry flour with a protein of 9.4%.)This post got my interest but all the links to Festo no longer work. Any information or insights into his techniques for a yeast bread would be much appreciated.
Katie
The protein amount is not the only variable that matters. There's also the properties of the gluten itself. For flour that seems to be problematic, I think the first thing to be done is to use less water. Some flours work well at low hydrations but collapse into a puddle using slightly higher ones.
If you add a non-gluten-forming flour (e.g., corn, barley, oats, rice, etc.) to AP or bread flour, you are to some degree simulating a low-protein flour. There have been a lot of threads on TFL using flour blends like that. It would be worth while looking for some of them. For example, if you have an all-purpose flour with a 10% protein level, and 20% of your total flour is corn, then the overall protein level is 8%.
If you have poor flour that wants to spread out into a disk or puddle, then a loaf pan is your friend. I would start out using the least amount of water that can hydrate the flour and make a dough, use a lot of yeast to get a short fermentation time (to protect the gluten from degradation) and go in one step from mixing to final proof in a loaf pan. This procedure ought to give you the best chance of letting the flour show what it can do.
If the loaf is decent in texture and rise, then you can try increasing the water and decreasing the yeast to see if the flour can tolerate longer fermentation periods.
Adding the salt right at the start (instead of after an autolyse) will help tighten the dough.
Including one or two eggs will help with providing structure. Using a tangzhong (aka yudane) could also help provide some gelatinized starch to help trap gas. Remember, the eggs and yudane will include water so reduce the rest of the water to compensate.
Also, bleached flours, I have read, tend to be more extensible. This also would favor using a loaf pan.
TomP
I have some stone-ground whole wheat pastry flour and I decided to give it a try. I sifted the flour using a #40 screen to remove some bran. To make the task harder, I added 10% of masa harina to the pastry flour. This should give a protein content somewhere in the 8% range, at a guess (the pastry flour is a US flour made from soft red winter wheat, so maybe 9% protein?).
I planned for 58% hydration, including the water in the one egg I added. Otherwise, I used a teaspoon of instant yeast and 2% salt. The dough was not quite as dry as I expected and was pretty stiff. After mixing I gave the dough a 10-minute rest, then kneaded by hand a few minutes. Then I put it into a buttered 4 X 4 X 4 Pullman pan and pressed it down.
I only used 150g flour total so I didn't expect this dough to be able to rise up to the top, and it didn't. But it got about halfway, not too bad for a weak flour. I cut the loaf too soon so the cut surface was too rough to show the crumb well, but the slice held together like any normal bread. The loaf wasn't airy but it didn't feel dense, either. It tasted fine, too, what with the whole wheat flour..
The experiment gives me some confidence in the flour. Another time, I would increase the hydration and also the amount of flour for the size of the loaf pan, and I think the loaf could proof free-standing without problems.
Don't know "Festo" - so can't comment on the "technique". As a rule - protein content = hydration. So less water is needed. Play with it is the best way to go. Enjoy!
I found that with 'weak' flours what I call a 'shaggy' biga does a good job. You can use the technique with both commercial yeast as well as a sourdough starter. The idea is to preferment a good proportion of the total flour but with minimum gluten formation in order to protect the gluten from degradation.
The gluten is only fully formed once the fermentation is at a fairly advanced stage.
This is the only way I have been able to make great spelt sourdough loaves that rise really well. All other approaches I used would end up as flat as pancakes.
Using with AP flour loaves come out great.
"Solano in Brazil and I have the same issue: Trying to make a first class bread from third world flour." Ah, but Solano succeeded.
Matteo Festo's (Festorazzi) ebook, Natural Leavenings is still available at various sources for download.
Thanks everyone. Okay, less water and I get a cannon ball... dense crumb and a crust that can’t be cut with a bread knife (hack saw?). More water, a teaspoon full, and a cow pie.
My best effort was mixing salt and yeast into the flour...hydrating to 62%...mixing for 5-min...let hydrate for 30-min...slap and fold for 10-min...ferment at room temp for 1-1/2 hours...cold ferment for 24-hours...aggressive rolling and under-tucking while cold to increase surface tension...two scores...bake cold...covered at 480F with a steam pan and ice cubes for 20-min...uncovered for an additional 20-min. Result: some oven spring but not bursting, chewy crust, dense crumb... certainly not airy. After the cold fermentation I got a decent rise but no bubbles on the surface of the dough. I tried a one hour autolyse, flour and water only, and it made matters worse.
As always, comments much appreciated...
Katie
Sounds like you have done almost everything you could, and gotten decent results too. The flour doesn't seem to be able to stand up to protein attack for long times, so I would try tweaking what you are doing to reduce this effect:
You could try using bottled drinking water instead of your regular source of water, if you can get any. Some people have found that their regular water contains something (not necessarily chlorine compounds) that interferes with proper dough development, and with bottled water they were able to get good results.
Sorry, don't remember if you mentioned Amazon in your earlier posts. They opened a new hub in Santo Domingo in September, which is supposed to make products more available. King Arthur apparently ships there, but no idea about costs or customs. Maybe give Amazon another check for vital wheat gluten?
Edit: I just did an Amazon.com search with a shipping address of DR. Message said it was showing me items that ship to DR;however, all the products I selected said they don't ship there, pick another address. So, that's not much use.
Thank you, Moe...
I do use Amazon. Things get shipped to a courier in Miami and then air-freighted in. As you can imagine, the cost is prohibitive.
Katie