Hey everybody. I need help Baking white bread. My first rise is great, and the second Rise in the loaf pan is good too. The problem is no matter what I try, when I put it in the oven to bake it, it looks good for a few minutes, and then it falls. I'm using bread flour and I've tried regular yeast and instant yeast. Any help would be greatly appreciated. I do live in Maine, so I'm wondering if the cold has anything to do with it. Thanks, John
If it's falling after you put it in the oven, it's not the cold that's the problem. You're probably letting it rise too high in the pan before baking. The dough can only handle so much expansion (how much it can handle depends on a lot of factors, including the type of flour, amount of water, and how you mixed it), and if you go past that point all the little bubbles in the dough will pop and the loaf will collapse.
Either that or not enough kneading. A cool temperature is not the problem.
TomP
What is the water %? That would explain things. Enjoy!
So for the record, I'm following a recipe online. I should say, that I have cut the batch in half, so I don't waste more flour and yeast until I have figured this out. I'm using bread flour, and my stand mixer to mix and knead. Am I letting the first rise go too long? Is that why the second Rise doesn't go much past the edge of the loaf pan? I have seen two schools of thought from everybody here and everybody that I talk to locally. Not kneading enough or overproofing. Or is cutting the batch in half my first mistake?
If the recipe is for two loaves, cutting it in half should not be a problem. Keep yeast under 2% by flour weight. There can be over-fermentation and/or over-proofing, which can cause collapse. The idea of underkneading is that gluten doesn't develop enough to support the loaf. How long is the machine kneading? Letting the dough rise in a straight-sided container, if you have one, makes it much easier to determine doubling.
The recipe called for letting the dough hook knead for 5 minutes. My first rise is in a steel round Bowl. My loaf pan is a 9x5 with some kind of non-stick off-white interior.
Five minutes in a mixer should be good. Are you familiar with the windowpane test?
I'm going with over-fermented and/or over-proofed, assuming low-protein flour is not the problem.
Well I'm using bread flour, so I assume that's the best choice. Or am I wrong? I think maybe I'm letting it rise too much on the first rise. I'm going to try a little less today.
You know, it's really unusual to have a loaf fall the way you have described. To be way overproofed in bulk, the dough would have risen an extreme amount, and (probably) be sticky and have many very large bubbles pushing out of the surface. You should definitely try a short fermentation time, but I'm starting to wonder if there isn't something about either the flour or water.
"Bread flour" - yes, all right, but please be more specific: at least brand, protein content if available. What's the source of your water? You could try bottled water - not distilled or reverse osmosis or "purified", because they remove minerals useful to yeast, but some kind of drinking water.
Yeast - how much, and how much flour?
Bread flour is good. Less bulk fermentation time is the thing to try. If you happen to have a little, straight-sided Rx pill bottle, put a small ball of dough into it, pressed down. Mark level with an elastic band and when it doubles, your bulk dough should be pretty close as well. Your pan size should be ok if the recipe called for 9" pans. If it called for 8", that will make a difference in the rise to expect in a 9" pan.
Edit: I posted this before Tom, so not trying to contradict him in any way.
You know, the bulk ferment could have been fine and the last pan rise too long, especially if the pan is too large for the dough. Usually, we just say post the recipe. Looking forward to your next results.
I'm using King Arthur bread flour. 2 and 1/2 cups, one cup water, half tablespoon yeast, one teaspoon salt, and 1 tablespoon oil. That is a half batch of the one I'm looking at online. I did the windowpane test a minute ago, and it looks good. So I'm on my first rise right now. I set the timer for 1 hour. As far as our water, it's city water up here in Maine. We actually have really good water right out of the tap.
Back to Davey's comment about how much water. That is mid-70s up to 80% hydration, depending on what gram measurements one uses for a cup of flour. If this bake is not successful, cut back on water.
Well I'm using a measuring cup for the flower. I'm not weighing it that's for sure. What percentage of water is ideal I guess I should ask. Since I'm cutting a batch in half, I know sometimes things can go awry.
That's a large amount of yeast for that much flour, but not way overboard. It should cause rapid fermentation, although a cool kitchen would slow it down, of course. So keep checking the dough and move on to shaping and proofing before the dough gets too large and puffy. Also, keep an eye on the loaf as it proofs in the loaf pan. At this point, aim for less rise. Once you are able to bake a loaf that doesn't collapse, you can start to let it rise longer if you like.
Setting a timer is good as a guide, but you need to go by how the dough actually behaves - how much it rises. The times will vary for all kinds of reasons, including the yeast, flour, temperature, the kneading time and technique and who knows what else.
I have it rising in the oven with the light on. I suspect it's a little too chilly inside the house to let it rise at room temperature. Am I wrong? It's probably around 68 in here. Or would the cooler temp be better? Or a shorter rise with a warmer temp?