Baguette journal #3: Bánh mi with little happy accident

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So about a week ago, I was determined to finalise my lean starter formula for baguette practicing as salted bran starter (24:12:1 bran:water:salt), and put it into test. And since my baguette making skill is beyond awful (lol), I thought let's make something extra difficult for the sake of practicing.

I have starter specific problem. My bran starters (both lean one and buttered one) always acting out whenever making contact with glutinous rice. Dough always turn out sticky and melty. But I like it difficult, hoping it will be much easier later on when I handle easier flours.

The dough was 20% glutinous rice flour, 30% PFF, 65% hydration, 2 stages levain. I can't go beyond 65% hydration with rice flour, otherwise I'll have crusty long pancakes. I used custom made 40x60 cm cookie sheet, 0.3 mm thin, to test whether plywood-parchment method can be ditched altogether. The oven temp were 250 °C (bottom) and 300 °C (upper). I lowered bottom heat to 230°C once I saw the loaves have reached maximum height.

I mixed the dough until passed windowpane test, followed by room temperature S&F for roughly 2 hours, then retarded it for better time management. My infrared thermometer registered 30 °C by the the end of levain fermentation.

But there was a happy little accident. I forgot to spray water after loading (lol). So I sprayed water 2 minutes after the loaves were loaded. Their height turned out unexpectedly better!

I can only speculate. Maybe that 2 minutes window gave the loaves a chance to set a little so they won't spread laterally. Maybe spraying water in the beginning will exarcebate the potential squat problem.

Oh and the flavor. One of signature characteristics of my starters are their ability to produce literally sweet loaves. And that extra harsh environment really squeezed out the sweetness out of the dough.They are sweeter than usual. And since the salt treatment, I feel there is a touch of umami present in my practice batches. Both starters never disappoint when it comes to fermentation flavor.

They are not there yet, but it's getting there. What a productive night! (or dawn. Whatever. lol) And pardon the awful scoring. The razor blade of my lame was split in half during scoring (weird, I know)

edit 1/9/25:

I just identified another culprit of shorter height in preceeding practice batches. I tend to score too vertical (length wise, so they're less than sausage cut) and too deep making the loaves prone to spread laterally. The batch in this post weren't as vertically scored, and can be scored less deep.

I decided to keep the cookie sheet method using the custom made sheet for the time being, and will custom order 40x60 cm baguette pan that can fit 5 loaves and see if I can figure something out to decrease product handling without sacrificing crumb aesthetic

 

Jay

I don't know what your ideal mental picture is, Jay, because those happy accidents look close to perfect to me. I want to bite into them.

Rob

So what is this salt bran starter you speak of 🧐.  Please elaborate as it sounds very interesting.  So how would you describe the flavor from using glutenous rice?

Thanks Ian, appreciate it!

The starter was derived from Cariah Marey (my bran-lactose-butter starter), I named him Whoreass Silver, after one of my all time favorite jazz artists Horace Silver (lol).

The main idea is to increase osmotic stress by using sugars, sugar-alcohols, or salt, to effortlessly control yeast:LAB ratio, since I live under tropical weather. Then I shifted my focus to Cariah's possible efficiency at producing glycerol, a natural osmotic pressure calibrating substance, which also is a cryoprotectant, and sweet tasting.

When certain yeasts are in osmotically stressful environment, they will produce glycerol intracellularly. And when the very same yeasts are moved to lot less stressful environment, they will produce glycerol extracellularly. This will further control LAB in final dough, up to certain point. Bread will taste sweet too.

I do salt treatment for Whoreass so he won't get too reliant on added sugar(s), since my crusty breads will always be mostly white flour. My practice batches turned out sweet as always. In a way, salt makes my bread sweet! Go figure!

And as for glutinous rice, it's just white flour and not much flavor from it, except the crumb mouthfeel slightly reminds me of rice based steamed cakes

Jay

You are 😂 making my head hurt :).

Thank you for the detailed explanation.  You are certainly pushing the bar with these types of starters and bakes with great results.

I just took out a new experimental bake using smoked cherries that my wife purchased and caramelized onions.  Unfortunately since I used a high % of fresh milled durum and wheat flour the extra sugars in the cherries caused the dough to over-ferment and it flattened out when I baked it.  Oh well, hopefully it will at least taste good.

How much salt have you been using? I salted a starter at 6% with daily feedings for a month.  Over that time, bread made with it slowly lost flavor and at the end tasted like ordinary yeasted white bread. It never acquired a sweet taste. I assumed that the salt level drove the LAB concentrations way down. That starter was fed only white flour, not whole grain or bran.

TomP

I also salted a starter at 4% (baker's percent). I think it did start driving down the LAB but more slowly than 6%, so that I wasn't sure if it was happening. Even at 6%, it took a month before I thought that the LAB was all gone. That was based on the taste of the bread. These were at 100% hydration, so if you base the salt content on the water instead of the flour, it's still the same percentage.

Maybe a few LAB survive the 1s treatment with salt. This study was only about fructilactobacillus sanfranciscensis, which is the dominant LAB in the most sourdoughs around the world. But there are hundreds of other LAB in much lower concentrations (<1% afair) in each sourdough. Some of this LAB might survive the salt.

Thanks sparkfan, appreciate it!

Oh, it seems complicated in writing, but a lot simpler in reality 😆

It's just sometimes to dismantle a process, then re-assemble old pieces with new useful pieces, requires deep thinking. So the process fits my wants and needs. But ultimately I aim for simplified process, just different flavor 😆

Jay

Nice even scores and an open crumb!

These were 60cm in length? I wish I had a wide oven to do full length baggies! 

Out of curiosity, what weight were they scaled at?


Cheers,
Michael

Thanks Michael, appreciate your kind words!

The pan yes, but my dough transfer plywood is 55 cm, because I put my couche in 60x40 cm pan, I feel 60 cm plywood seems tricky to scoop proofed dough from 40x60 pan. So at most, they are 55 cm long. I might order 58 cm plywood soon, to allow the dough be a bit longer.

I always portion 200 g flour/ baggie. They get bigger as I move up hydration.

Jay