Couronne Bordelaise with Lievito Madre (Didn't Go as Planned)

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sparkfan on 28 Aug 2025 at 07:27
Couronne Bordelaise

Continuing with the French tradition and looking for something more ... fancy than a simple boul, etc, I remembered yesterday that I could also bake a "Bordeaux crown". The last time I baked a Couronne Bordelaise (with fresh yeast) it was 3 years ago.

This time I went for a recipe with lievito madre. Actually it was more a freestyle compilation of 2 yeast base recipes (homebaking.at and marcelpaa.com):

10% low extraction rye flour

45% Ruchmehl (or First Clear in the US)

45% white flour

25% LM

2% salt

70% overall hydration

The original idea was to bulk ferment at 26ºC until double, deflate the dough, let it double again, shape, final proof at 24-25ºC and bake at 210ºC with steam. The goal was to get nice even crumb with small regular alveoli.

After mixing I realized that it's too late in the day for bulk at 26ºC. I decided to bulk over night at 16ºC. When I wanted to punch to dough down it already almost tripled in volume and the gluten structure was not as good as I expected. I completely forgot, that with higher extraction flour (Ruchmehl) and rye a too long fermentation is not necessarily a good idea. Punching down the dough when the volume increases by 50% would have been probably a better idea. Too late.

Without a plan B, I punched down the dough, let it rise again by 50%, shape it ... (the gluten structure 😬)

 

final proof at 25ºC, bake at 220ºC on steal with steam.

 

 

 

 

And a crumb shot (couldn't wait until it completely cooled down):

 

 

Not quite as initially planned. A good motivation to make it better next time ;)

 

I am surprised a 10% amount of rye would have caused your fermentation to go through the roof.  It definitely looks overproofed but I'm sure it still tasted great :).

I reckon 45% ruchmehl/45% white/10% rye should handle a long ferment just fine. But not with a leaven introduced at 25% inoculation. That sounds way too high.

Rob

LM was 25% of the total flour. The initial plan was fermentation at 25-26ºC. Should have started earlier in the day. It was too late for a warm fermentation. It was a spontaneous decision without looking at the clock.

I didn't want to do final proof in the fridge, but in this particular case would have been probably a better plan B.

I choose to bulk retard at 16ºC. Should have probably put it in the fridge, but I was afraid that I get too much acid.

 

EDIT: Many of my recipes use 20-25% LM. Works pretty well for warm fermentation and bake on same day (start in the morning, bake in the evening). The biggest issue was the wrong time line.

Bulk until the dough doubles or triples in volume, punch it down and repeat might also be an issue if not working with only strong white flour.

In the summary probably 2 issues, but only one triggered for sure: too much starter for the fermentation temperature and duration.

sure, sparkfan. you know what works for you.

For me, 25% inoculation would be too much. About a year ago, I started having problems with my deli ryes (45% rye, 55% bread flour -- or mix of bf and ww) fermenting way too fast and not holding their shape in the oven. Usually, I was able to do a 5-8 hour levain followed by maybe 2 hours of bulk and 1 hour of proofing -- everything at room temp. The process was casual: I had no worries if changes in my schedule meant the levain or the dough fermented longer. The loaves always ballooned nicely in the oven. Then, suddenly, that stopped (the only change, as far as I could determine, was that the company that mills the whole rye flour I buy had installed a new grindstone and the flour had become much finer -- more in line with the other brands out there on the market.)

In response, I tried reining in my timings and watching the dough with my beady eyes. I pivoted to bottled water. I tried several episodes of strong stitching so the dough would hold together more -- which it did on the counter but not in the oven. The solution was right in front of me. I had been fermenting the rye flour with a 10% inoculation. When I dropped that to 3% or 5%, the problem went away.

Rob