Why would my stater get moldy after a couple of days. I thought it was the flour so I switched flours. I sanitized the jar. I have tried 4 times and it gets moldy every time. Thanks in advance for any responses.
You have eliminated the flour and jar... so maybe it's the water? Can you use boiled water that's been allowed to cool, with a cover over it. Maybe make up a bottle or covered jug of it to use for feeding as well. At worst case it could prove that the culprit isn't the water.
My starter always has a glass, or other solid cover, not cloth. It is just resting on top of the jar so any gas could still escape if needed, but it is a good barrier against anything else getting into it.
That's how I used to do it, but I got this kit last Christmas. I had just a mason jar and I would put the lid without the ring right on top. This is like a burlap little shower cap.
I'm not an expert on mold but since the visible part of mold is the organism's fruiting body, I would assume the burlap cover gets spores on it each time mold appears on your starter. If you aren't getting cleaning every last spore off the cloth cover between each attempt then there's a chance it's the source of contamination. Possibly it was the original source that infected your first starter.
Even if you are doing your best to sanitize the cloth cover each time, because you are having this issue consistently I'd suggest finding a more traditional cover and using that. Something solid, nonporous, that is easy to completely clean, and can cover the jar without being airtight. From my understanding fabrics hold onto particles like mold spores much better than glass, ceramic, metal, etc. so it's probably worth trying a different material.
Another possibility is to try the Pineapple Juice Solution. TFL member Debra Wink has posted the method here on TFL. The main selling point is that you initially get a pH that is favorable for the desired bacteria and yeasts without waiting for the initial starter mix to get there on its own. I have not tried this myself but it supposedly works really well.
Debra's Pineapple Juice Solution is definitely recommended reading for anyone starting out with a starter but it's important to note that this solution was not for the purpose of preventing mould growth. Rather it was about preventing unwanted bacteria, particularly those that can cause a stink and lots of initial gas which may present a false positive with respect to gauging success.
Moulds are in fact the most tolerant of low pH environments...
And so pH (independently) and the Pineapple Juice Solution are not a control for mould. Key spoilage microorganisms for foods that are acidic, such as fruit based products are yeasts and moulds.
I recommended the Desem-style method above, as detailed by Abe, as it creates an environment which will pretty much eliminate the chances of spoilage by mould as it eliminates oxygen exposure and a surface on which mould can proliferate. Also it has the added benefit of not requiring any other substances. I find it to be an elegant solution and an easy to follow method for newbies.
Mould problems are generally the result of a static mixture, in a humid oxygen-available environment, not producing any gas.
I don't pretend to know as much about starters as the others, but wonder if we are missing something.
Catrenia, 5 yrs ago your starter had an acetone problem, which I assume was fixed. Four yrs ago, there was a question about black spots on the starter. You scraped them off, but there was no follow-up to that post. I assume you've had a healthy starter in the meantime, but you seem to start new ones often, so I'm wondering what is going on with the maintenance.
Don't mean to sound like I'm from Starter Protection Services 😄, just trying to see things from another angle.
FWIW - I start one for the heck of it. Far as I know there's no rule for when to make a starter. If you have the time to make one - go right ahead. Enjoy!
You have eliminated the flour and jar... so maybe it's the water? Can you use boiled water that's been allowed to cool, with a cover over it. Maybe make up a bottle or covered jug of it to use for feeding as well. At worst case it could prove that the culprit isn't the water.
I have been using bottled water, but I will try that. Thanks!
Temperature + humidity + pH not getting below 4 fast enough? Did you cover the jar?
The jar came with a little cloth cover. I have been using that. It also came with a thermometer. It doesn't get above about 76 degrees.
My starter always has a glass, or other solid cover, not cloth. It is just resting on top of the jar so any gas could still escape if needed, but it is a good barrier against anything else getting into it.
That's how I used to do it, but I got this kit last Christmas. I had just a mason jar and I would put the lid without the ring right on top. This is like a burlap little shower cap.
I'm not an expert on mold but since the visible part of mold is the organism's fruiting body, I would assume the burlap cover gets spores on it each time mold appears on your starter. If you aren't getting cleaning every last spore off the cloth cover between each attempt then there's a chance it's the source of contamination. Possibly it was the original source that infected your first starter.
Even if you are doing your best to sanitize the cloth cover each time, because you are having this issue consistently I'd suggest finding a more traditional cover and using that. Something solid, nonporous, that is easy to completely clean, and can cover the jar without being airtight. From my understanding fabrics hold onto particles like mold spores much better than glass, ceramic, metal, etc. so it's probably worth trying a different material.
A starter gets moldy when it encounters mold and it's left to mold - if that's what it is. Enjoy!
It is definitely mold. It's black and fuzzy. Thanks.
Really - more info is needed. If everything is clean - and stays that way - there shouldn't be a problem. Enjoy!
So ask a question. Smug much? Jeez
mould is ubiquitous in the environment, it may be that your environment is prone to mould and/or your flour is old or has been stored sub-optimally.
Mould loves warmth, humidity and oxygen. It is a strict aerobe and carbon dioxide is a good suppressant - you could consider using sparkling water.
Try this method instead: An Interesting Way To Make A Starter | The Fresh Loaf
It's fairly new flour and it's kept in a lock and lock container. I'll try the sparkling water. Thanks!
Another possibility is to try the Pineapple Juice Solution. TFL member Debra Wink has posted the method here on TFL. The main selling point is that you initially get a pH that is favorable for the desired bacteria and yeasts without waiting for the initial starter mix to get there on its own. I have not tried this myself but it supposedly works really well.
Pineapple Juice Solution Part 1
Pineapple Juice Solution Part 2
It does work well. As does the brine from salt-fermenting vegetables.
TomP
Debra's Pineapple Juice Solution is definitely recommended reading for anyone starting out with a starter but it's important to note that this solution was not for the purpose of preventing mould growth. Rather it was about preventing unwanted bacteria, particularly those that can cause a stink and lots of initial gas which may present a false positive with respect to gauging success.
Moulds are in fact the most tolerant of low pH environments...
And so pH (independently) and the Pineapple Juice Solution are not a control for mould. Key spoilage microorganisms for foods that are acidic, such as fruit based products are yeasts and moulds.
I recommended the Desem-style method above, as detailed by Abe, as it creates an environment which will pretty much eliminate the chances of spoilage by mould as it eliminates oxygen exposure and a surface on which mould can proliferate. Also it has the added benefit of not requiring any other substances. I find it to be an elegant solution and an easy to follow method for newbies.
Mould problems are generally the result of a static mixture, in a humid oxygen-available environment, not producing any gas.
pH 0!! Molds sure are tenacious buggers! Thanks for the info.
I suggest those numbers are not precise :) but you get the idea:
Low pH tolerance; Moulds, Yeasts, LAB, pathogenic bacteria (strongest to weakest).
Mould flourishes on the surface of substances. They are like little trees.
I don't pretend to know as much about starters as the others, but wonder if we are missing something.
Catrenia, 5 yrs ago your starter had an acetone problem, which I assume was fixed. Four yrs ago, there was a question about black spots on the starter. You scraped them off, but there was no follow-up to that post. I assume you've had a healthy starter in the meantime, but you seem to start new ones often, so I'm wondering what is going on with the maintenance.
Don't mean to sound like I'm from Starter Protection Services 😄, just trying to see things from another angle.
FWIW - I start one for the heck of it. Far as I know there's no rule for when to make a starter. If you have the time to make one - go right ahead. Enjoy!