The Fresh Loaf

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My bread log

caryn's picture
caryn

My bread log

I have once again decided to document my bakes. I think I did not do this correctly a few moments ago, so here is a link to my last entry where I added my latest bake and explain what I did.  https://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/57785/multigrain-loaf-la-dmsnyder

Comments

caryn's picture
caryn

Today I baked this bread from The Rye Baker. My two sponges were very vigorous and more than doubled. The second sponge doubled after only 4.5 hours. The recipe suggested it would not be ready for 6 to 8 hours, but I was worried that it would over-ferment if I let it rise any longer, so I moved onto the next step at that point. After adding the remaining ingredients and mixing in my KA mixer, I “poured” it into the 9”x5” loaf pan and waited for it to rise to about the top of the pan. It barely rose after about 75 minutes at which point, I turned on the oven as directed. As you will see from the picture, it did finally rise somewhat in the bake, but in a strange fashion which suggests to me that it may have needed some shaping or additional kneading. My dough was not as pourable as was suggested in the recipe, probably because I used dark rye for the second sponge and as a consequence the dough was more dense. I won’t know how it tastes until tomorrow, since a 24 hour wait is required before slicing!

caryn's picture
caryn

I baked it for a much shorter time. After the oven registered 460° I baked it for 20 minutes, turned the oven down to 375° for only another 20 minutes, since it tested done at 207 to 210°. It took 16.5 minutes for my oven to reach 460°, so the bread was baking in the oven for only a total of  56.5 minutes. I will see if it baked properly tomorrow!

caryn's picture
caryn

This simple bread, totally leavened by my rye starter turned out delicious!

caryn's picture
caryn

This is what I baked today. I fed my rye starter twice before following the recipe- 8g starter, 16g each dark rye and water. After about 10 hours on the first day, I refrigerated it overnight, fed it the next day and refrigerated it, so I could start the recipe in the morning. I then followed the steps in the recipe fairly closely choosing to make 2/3 of the recipe. I inadvertently used dark rye for the first sponge, but it was only a very small amount, so I doubt that made any difference. After stage 2 the sponge should have doubled and begun to fall back, but after at least 12 hours, it had not quite doubled. I proceeded with the next step (final dough) anyway. After mixing the final dough as directed, it took about 4 hours to double. I increased the proofer temperature for the last hour from 72° to 75°. The shaped boule took just about an hour to proof. I used my Challenger pan for baking, preheating the oven to 475°, lowering to 460° when I put the bread in. I then followed the rest of the temperatures and times as directed. All together it baked about 50 minutes. I now need to wait 24 hours to cut into it! 

caryn's picture
caryn

I had reported on this bread last week, but somehow my descriptions got deleted. So from memory, these are my notes. I made 2/3 of the recipe because I didn’t want too much bread accumulating in the freezer! Otherwise, I pretty much followed the recipe. I fed my rye starter twice before starting with the recipe to ensure that it would be strong. The stage 2 sponge did not quite double, but I continued with the steps anyway. When making the final dough, it took 4 hours to double. I then shaped it into a boule and proofed in my proofer for about an hour. I preheated the oven to 475° and immediately turned down the oven to 460°when I put the dough into the Challenger pan. After 10 minutes I reduced the temperature to 400° and removed the cover. I continued to bake for 20 minutes, then reduced the temperature to 300° and baked for about 20 more minutes.

The result was a delicious, but dense bread. The flavors were really pleasing, and I will definitely repeat this formula.

LOOKS LIKE I HAD NOT LOST THESE NOTES. THEY WERE JUST ON THE NEXT PAGE!

 

caryn's picture
caryn
caryn's picture
caryn

So, suddenly I realized that my bread supply in the freezer was almost all finished and I needed to make a bread that did not take the usual 3 days of planning. I looked through Hamelman’s Bread and decided to make this 50% rye bread again that uses some yeast along with the rye levain. This is really one of the easiest breads to make. I made the levain last night and I have bread before noon today.

caryn's picture
caryn

I adapted the formula from Marc Vetri:

 

100g whole wheat flour

150g KA “00” flour

150g bread flour

200g levain

300g water

15g salt

 

I mixed this following instructions for hand mixing from a YouTube video:


I made the Shishito and corn topping using 2 cups of Trader Joe’s roasted corn, defrosted and 12 oz. of the peppers, stemmed. I roasted the peppers, tossed with 1.5 tablespoons of olive oil and some salt and pepper, in the preheated 500°F oven on a sheet pan. I then added the corn for the last minute or so.

 

I took the dough out of the bowl and stretched it a bit onto a floured board, just to get it floured and ready to go into the other sheet pan that I had oiled with 2 tablespoons of olive oil. I pressed it out with my fingers, allowing the dough to rest a few times until I was able to stretch it out to cover the pan.

 

I topped the dough and sprinkled on some Parmesan cheese. I put it in the preheated 500°F oven on the baking stone for 10 minutes, turned the pan around and baked for about 10 minutes more. I then topped it with about 10 ounces of fresh mozzarella cheese that I had coarsely torn up and returned the pan to the oven until the cheese melted, about 3 minutes.

 

 

I had baked the pizza on a stone in the middle of the oven and that may have been the cause of the peppers becoming a bit too brown, so next time I may put the stone further down in the oven so hopefully the outcome will be improved.

caryn's picture
caryn

I made this bread from Hamelman’s Bread 3rd edition last week, so I can’t report as many details as I would like. What  I remember is that the dough was very loose which might have been the cause of the quite flat loaf. It rose enough for the bread to be a nice consistency, but because it spread too much in the baking, the slices aren’t the best for sandwiches. I used some bolted flour that I had in my freezer from a local farmer’s market. If I repeat this formula, I might reduce the water somewhat. I did use the bassinage method, but thought maybe the consistency of the dough was better before I added the last 10%.

louiscohen's picture
louiscohen

It looks good to me.  How did it taste?  

caryn's picture
caryn

The taste of this bread was okay. I was not wowed. Just a serviceable bread. After I made it I sliced it and put it in the freezer. I will judge it again while using it as toast. 

caryn's picture
caryn

I used Hamelman’s formula as a starting point. The main change I made was to use half whole wheat flour. I also added some vital wheat gluten because I did not have actual high gluten flour. The result was decent- they look good, but they were much too chewy, either because I added too much gluten or kneaded the dough too much. I should have been more careful mixing in the pâté fermentée because I ended up kneaded a long while in order for it to be fully incorporated. Also I used 14g of the vital wheat gluten for the 503 grams of total flour. I will reduce the amount next time. The dough was also a bit dry, though in the end it behaved fine. I used honey in the boiling water since I did not have barley malt syrup.

caryn's picture
caryn

I took out a couple of bagels (from the freezer) and toasted them for lunch today,  and for whatever reason they did not seem to be as chewy as they did when fresh. They were fine. I will, however, adjust the gluten and be careful of the kneading the next time.

caryn's picture
caryn

This bread is from Hamelman’s Bread, 3rd edition p.230. This bread is 66% whole rye flour and I expected it to be very dense, but I was delighted by the taste and texture. It calls for red rye malt which I had been planning to make according to the directions in the recipe, when upon going to my local make-your -own-beer store, the proprietor showed and gave me a taste (!) of his chocolate rye. So that is what I used here. The flavor and texture of this bread really makes homemade bread rewarding. I highly recommend this formula. The bulk fermentation was 4 hours at 78°F and the proofing in the pans was about 1.5 hours. I was amazed how well the dough expanded during the bulk fermentation, considering how minuscule the amount of starter it begins with. I used my white and whole-wheat starter and started with only 4 grams. I made 1/20 of the metric formula to yield about a kilogram of dough. 

The one issue was with my result was I had used pans that were too large to get a decent height. The recipe actually suggested some very small pans for about 350g of dough. Lacking those pans I thought I could put 500g in my 8:5” X 4.4” pans, but realized that these really are too big for that amount of dough. Next time I will plan to add 50% more dough to each pan and increase my amounts by 50%. I also baked them for less time, 15 minutes at 450°F and about 20 to 25 minutes at 420°F. One warning: I followed the instructions on how to prepare the pans, and the loaves stuck and were hard to release, even though the pans may have had a non-stick coating. Next time I will line the pans with parchment.

Overall, these were a success.

caryn's picture
caryn

I made Hamelman’s Busy Farmer Bread last week. It is a 50% whole wheat sourdough bread.it was easy and worked well. It is a great all purpose bread that makes good sandwiches. I topped it with sesame seeds for added appeal. It looked good and tasted good. I highly recommend!


louiscohen's picture
louiscohen

That looks great.  

caryn's picture
caryn

This time I followed the recipe from Cook’s Country. I followed it exactly, except that I used the Detroit Pizza pan that I already owned. It called for Monterey Jack in place of the brick cheese that is in the original recipe, but difficult to source. I thought it worked well and worked nicely with the Cook’s Country uncooked pizza sauce for it. I served it with some sweet and spicy jalapeño peppers from Trader Joe’s.

caryn's picture
caryn

I just baked Hamelman’s “80% Sourdough Rye with a Rye Flour Soaker,” from Bread, 3rd edition, p. 239. I was inspired to make this from another “Fresh Loafer,”Louis Cohen. I followed the recipe quite closely, but scaled it to a kilogram loaf, mostly because I was worried that this unusual recipe might not work for me, and I would rather a small failure than a large one!

So it appears to have baked well- I baked it for a total of 45 minutes because my loaf was smaller than the larger loaves that Hamelman was suggesting. Following Hamelman’s suggestions, I will wait 24 hours before cutting it.

louiscohen's picture
louiscohen

That looks much nicer than mine.  It will be delicious tomorrow.  Try it with lox or the smoked whitefish spread from Costco, or your favorite deli.  

I have pretty much switched to rye loaves from bagels

caryn's picture
caryn

That is a great idea. I don’t have lox at the moment, but I have some homemade smoked turkey in the freezer that I will defrost for tomorrow!

caryn's picture
caryn

The 80% rye turned out very flavorful with a dense crumb. I made smoked turkey sandwiches with it yesterday. We liked this formula a lot.


jkandell's picture
jkandell

I see you made the Litovsky as well from Hamelman 3.  This bread is like a minimal version of that one to me, without any malt or spices.  But keeping the scald.

I made this recipe with his "baker's variation"  adding 18% each dried fruits.  It was different but delicious: the prunes and apricots and raisins, and their sweetness, goes nicely with the plain scalded loaf.  I liked the fruit combo enough I am going to try adding it to the Salzburger Wheat Germ bread also new to third edition.  Have you tried that one yet? It is also delicious.

louiscohen's picture
louiscohen

I'm sure it's delicious but I just don't want to stock another ingredient.  I already have these in the cabinet or freezer:

  • Dark/whole rye flour
  • Medium rye flour
  • Whole wheat flour
  • High gluten flour (I don't use this much, mainly for Hamelman's challah, so I'll probably get it when I need it)
  • Bread flour
  • AP flour
  • Rice flour (for dusting the bannetons)
  • SAF instant dry yeast (mostly left over from before I got my sourdough culture working)
  • Sesame seeds
  • Caraway seeds
  • Poppy seeds
  • Cornmeal (for sourdough discard cornbread)

I'm sure the spelt, kamut, Khorasan, etc breads and multigrains are delicious.  But for me, the flavor isn't so much better that it's worth the effort and storage space for the ingredients.  YMMD

caryn's picture
caryn

Thanks so much for sharing your experience with these recipes. I did notice the variation with the dried fruits, but have not tried it yet. Now you have inspired me to do so. I love apricots, but always struggle to find good tasting ones that don’t have a string SO2 aftertaste. If you know a good online source, I would appreciate it. Maybe the SO2 additive will be attenuated when baked in the bread.I did not notice the wheat germ formula, but will look at that one as well.

—Caryn

caryn's picture
caryn

I baked this bread from Hamelman’s Bread, 3rd edition, p.184 a little more than a week ago. I love the flavor of this bread. My only disappointment is the bread was a bit flatter than I am used to. I think my breads come out better when they are given an overnight cold proofing, and this recipe did not suggest that as an option. I think next time I will try that. On all other respects, we like this formula a lot. It is great toasted with cheese melted on top.

 

caryn's picture
caryn

I just started the process for making Hamelman’s Five-Grain Levain from Bread, 3rd edition, p,180. I may learn some valuable lessons from this, as I started this with with less than optimal conditions. First, my starter had not been fed for a month. I did feed it twice before creating the levain for this recipe, but it did not show signs of much robustness, just barely doubling. Secondly, I forgot that when planning to proof overnight, I usually start the process at 1 PM, so that the bread does not proof too long in the refrigerator or wine cooler, and I started the dough in the morning. That means, it will get about 18 hours of cold proofing. So, I will see what happens when I bake it tomorrow.. I could have added the optional yeast in the formula, but I really wanted to test this formula with an overnight proof where the yeast should be omitted. I did bulk ferment for about 2.5 hours, although the recipe suggested only two if proofing overnight.

louiscohen's picture
louiscohen

It looks pretty tasty from the formula.  

I have been feeding my rye starter once a week, in the morning before mixing the levain/sourdough that evening.  It pretty much doubles after 12 hrs at 75 F.  80 - 85 F will double faster and sometimes almost triple.   We have company coming so I have fed the starter this morning for an evening rye sourdough.  I'll feed it again tomorrow AM for tomorrow evening's whole wheat levain.

Fermentation times vary more than I thought; I think it helps to check for signs like a shaky texture and especially bubble or holes on top.

My starter quickly goes dormant in a retarded proof; I put the bowl with the dough in a big ziplock bag in the fridge; I'm not sure that a few more hours makes much difference.  You can either proof at room temp for a while before retarding, or go right in the fridge and let it come back to room temp in the morning for 15-25 minutes before scoring and baking.  I'm sure there is a difference in the results but it's too subtle for me to tell the difference.

caryn's picture
caryn

So, I am guessing that you use your rye starter for all of your breads? I fed both my rye and mixed starters (bread flour and about 1/3 whole wheat) after having neglected both for about a month. The rye starter showed more signs that it was re-invigorated than the mixed one, but I used the mixed one for this bread. I will know much more tomorrow when I bake the bread. Depending on what it looks like in the morning, I may let it sit out while the oven and pot are preheating.

Which rye are you making tonight? I am a little unclear how you schedule your bakes. I usually follow Hamelman’s method of creating the levain overnight, making the dough and bulk fermenting with folds and then proofing and baking the same day, or I refrigerate the levain that I created overnight until 1PM, make the dough and proof overnight in the refrigerator or wine cooler.

louiscohen's picture
louiscohen

I have one whole/dark rye culture at 100% hydration.  I like the flavor of rye, and with  10% or less of culture in the wheat bread you need a better palate than mine to taste the rye.

My typical schedule is:

Day 1 AM Remove culture from the fridge, feed 1:10:10, place in the proofer at 75 F

Day 1 PM   Mix levain/sourdough, place it in the proofer; remaining culture back in the fridge

Day 2 AM  Mix final dough; bulk ferment in the proofer

Day 2 PM  Preshape, shape, place in a dish towel-lined bowl, proof part way if needed, place the bowl in a ziplock and retard in the fridge; set oven time to preheat w/dutch oven, 6 am on weekends, 4 am on weekdays

Day 3 AM Proof in the proofer 15-25 minutes if needed; spritz, score, and bake starting 7 am on weekends, 5 am on weekdays for off-peak electricity rates

Some rye breads, especially in "The Rye Baker" have multiple stages which can add a day to the process.  I have not tried a Detmolder 3-stager; it's too much work for a casual home baker.  

When the discard container starts filling up, I make muffins, cornbread, pancakes, or crepes for breakfast.  With recent regular weekly bakes, the discard doesn't accumulate as quickly.  I found hooch in the discard container this morning. 

caryn's picture
caryn

Thanks for that info, Louis. I think my method is similar, but I am not very consistent with my feedings. I may try to emulate what you do, so that my starters do not get neglected. I get your point that there probably is no reason to maintain multiple starters. It is really terrific that you build into your routine using the starter discard. I looked back at some of the files that you had previously shared with me, but I didn’t see a recipe for cornbread. I frequently make corn bread when I make soup and chili, so that recipe would be very useful to me. Is there possible a general rule to follow to convert a recipe to use leftover starter?

Actually I just googled and found a bunch of sourdough cornbread recipes. If you have a favorite, please let me know.

louiscohen's picture
louiscohen

Sourdough Discard Cornbread  

This works really well

  • Multiply  x 1.5 for a 12" cast iron pan
  • Use more salt and baking time than the formula calls for
  • You can substitute regular milk + a little vinegar for buttermilk

I have also added the link to Bread Formulas

Sourdough discard is just a batter with 100% hydration (or whatever you use).  So anytime a recipe calls for flour and water you can use discard, understanding that 100g of discard = 50g flour + 50g water, and then add flour or water if needed.  The discard, especially rye, will be acidic so you might need baking soda in addition to baking powder, or maybe a little extra baking soda if there is already some in the recipe. 

caryn's picture
caryn

Louis- Thank you for the recipes. The cornbread recipe looks delicious. I will definitely try it soon. My standard recipe is from the Joy of Cookinhg. It has a small amount of sugar and less fat than yours. I like the idea of making cornbread without any sugar. It will be interesting if we like it as much as the one we are used to.

caryn's picture
caryn

I guess my neglected starter came to life after only two feedings! The oven spring is dramatic! When I cut it later, I will get to see if the long cold proofing time impacted on the flavor.

caryn's picture
caryn

I also made dough for this Egyptian bread today. The formula is from Modernist Bread, p.304. I have made this before. It is really a variation on pita. What makes it different is that it uses corn flour and fenugreek. I have no source for corn flour, so I use Trader Joe’s popcorn kernels and put them in my grain mill to produce a flour. I did this the first time that I made this and it worked really well. I have made the dough balls and they will have an overnight stay in the refrigerator for baking tomorrow.

Here it is:

 

caryn's picture
caryn

I just baked this from Hamelman’s Bread 3rd Edition, p.225. The yeast was optional, I decided to try it without to see the result this way, and maybe next time I will try it with it to see if it is any different. I scaled it to make a 1K loaf and I used mostly medium rye. I will impatiently wait the recommended 24 hours before cutting into it, and I will report on the results tomorrow.

louiscohen's picture
louiscohen

That looks great.

caryn's picture
caryn

Thanks. I like the way it formed a decorated crust without doing anything but docking it with my large fork.

caryn's picture
caryn

The crumb is very dense, I am not surprised given that it is 80% rye. I just had a small taste since I just got back from a big lunch out. It has a pleasant tart taste, but I am not sure it tastes as good as the 80% rye with rye soaker that I had made previously. 

caryn's picture
caryn

I am a bit behind reporting on my bread making. I made this bread From Bread, 3rd Ed., p.168,  probably 2 weeks ago. It turned out to be a nice whole grain sandwich bread. I did use the optional yeast and baked it the same day that I mixed the dough as the recipe described. It worked fine, but I wonder if I would have preferred making it without the yeast and an overnight rise. I think this bread as written lacks some of the sourdough nuances that I have gotten with completely sourdough leavened doughs.

caryn's picture
caryn

I have made this many times over the years. The formula is from Cook’s Illustrated. I made them with half whole wheat flour and they worked well. I think next time I will try a whole grain sourdough for the dough. I think that would make them even more interesting.

caryn's picture
caryn

I followed this: Slow, Lazy Sourdough Bread – Breadtopia

 

It was an interesting experiment. I made the dough as described using what might have been King Arthur whole wheat flour and KA white whole wheat. I added about 8g of vital gluten  because I wasn’t actually sure that the whole wheat was the KA flour that has a high gluten percentage. In any case, it was a 100% whole wheat formula of 80% hydration.

 

I  started  with just 2 or 3 grams of starter as was described. The starter that I used came directly from the refrigerator where it had not been fed for more than 2 weeks. I followed the instructions for mixing, and after 12 hours, it had risen by a small amount. I then did 2 folds a half hour apart and then allowed it to proof until it had doubled. After 16 hours  the dough had doubled. It was really dramatic how much it rose in the last four hours. I then shaped it, put it in a banneton, and then put it in the refrigerator, covered as usual.

 

I then baked it as directed after it spent about 14 hours overnight in the refrigerator. I am amazed what a tiny amount of old starter can do. 

louiscohen's picture
louiscohen

It looks great and the open crumb in the after slicing post is amazing.   I would like to think that's due to the white whole wheat and especially the vital wheat gluten.  

caryn's picture
caryn

So generally you shouldn’t cut into a bread before about two hours, but I was hungry and it didn’t make any sense to wait another hour! So I tried it.  It worked so well and had a really fantastic flavor. I can’t wait to make it again with maybe some variations.

caryn's picture
caryn

I decided to make the above bread again with the addition of seeds. I added them at about 10 hours into the bulk ferment, just when the dough was beginning to rise. The seeds, toasted sunflower seeds and pumpkin seeds that I toasted,  were  25% of the total flour weight. This my be why the bread, while tasty, is a bit dense.

 

caryn's picture
caryn

Yesterday, I finally used some sourdough discard that had been in the refrigerator for a very long time to make some sourdough following this: https://matthewjamesduffy.com/sourdough-cornbread-with-buttermilk/, suggested to me by fellow freshloafer, Louis Cohen. It turned out to be fun to make and a bit challenging when I realized that I was low on cornmeal and it was about to storm. So. I did what anyone might do if they have a grain mill and some popcorn kernels kept in the freezer:  I ground the popcorn into cornmeal and it did the trick. I thought it came out well, but perhaps it was a little less sweet than I am used to. I appreciated the fact that cornbread does not really need any sugar, but it may have been sweeter had I used regular cornmeal. It is possible thar corn used for popping is not as sweet as corn generally used to make cornmeal. Or, it may be that we are not used to cornbread that has little sweetness. I actually don’t like cornbread that is very sweet where it is more like cake, but maybe I would like a result somewhat in between.

caryn's picture
caryn

I made this about a week ago. I made this pretty much as written, using a liquid starter in the levain build. I used the yeast along with the sourdough as specified in the recipe. Somehow, I always feel like I am cheating when I do this, but the result was really nice. It is 40% whole wheat and resulted in a nice hearty and sweet bread. I made one tenth of the metric formula and put the dough in three 8.5” X 4.5” loaf pans.

caryn's picture
caryn

I just made this bread yesterday. It was an interesting method. It started with an overnight levain that included onions and whole grain rye flour (that I milled because I had some rye berries). The next day, you mix, knead it briefly, shape it, and put it in a banneton. There is no real bulk fermentation. I allowed the bread to rise at 79°F for about 2.25 hours and then baked it in my Challenger pan. Unfortunately, I should not have baked it in such a hot oven, as the bottom was a bit scorched. It was not inedible- just darker than I would have liked. I scraped some of the bottom off, and it tasted fine. The bread has a bit of a cakey texture, maybe because of the molasses or because the gluten was not well developed. I did, however, really enjoy its taste and will make it again.  The recipe: https://www.kingarthurbaking.com/recipes/sourdough-pumpernickel-bread-recipe

1

caryn's picture
caryn

I wanted to make a bread a bit more standard than I usually do, so I decided to make this one. I wanted to make a rye bread reminiscent of the kind I grew up on, only better! I think I succeeded with this recipe. It has a nice texture fresh and toasted as well. I added one tablespoon caraway seeds to the full recipe and followed the recipe as directed. I would definitely make this again.

louiscohen's picture
louiscohen

Very nice as always.  Our friends from NY really liked it.  

caryn's picture
caryn
  • I just baked this bread, making one loaf, halving the recipe because I did not have enough medium rye flour to make the entire recipe. I basically followed the recipe with just a couple of minor changes. I did not have any active rye starter available, so for the 5 grams of starter I needed for the recipe, I used my white/whole wheat starter that I have fed more recently. Also, while mixing the dough, the roughly 50% hydration dough was so stiff that the mixing movement on slow speed caused the bowl to disengage from the Kitchen Aid stand, so I added a small amount of water to loosen the dough a bit. I bulk fermented the dough for 6 hours in which it didn’t quite double, and then let it proof for 1.25 hours. I baked it on a stone, covered for 15 minutes and uncovered for 25 minutes more. I will wait for it to cool completely before cutting and trying it. As you can see, there was no dramatic oven spring! 

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