The Fresh Loaf

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One lump or two

MTloaf's picture
MTloaf

One lump or two

A follow up on a sweet stiff leavain bread after the first attempt produced a decent loaf but with large mysterious cavities in the crumb. For comparison I used my usual country bread recipe and did a second control version with the normal levain minus the sugar. Both doughs got the same autolyse and coil folds and a 4 1/2 hour bulk ferment. 

  • TF 450 gr 15% spelt home milled the rest was KABF and AP 
  • 80% +or- H2O
  • The sweet levain bread was baked straight through the SD was
  • retarded overnight 

Spelt
The sugar free breads. My starter has gotten quite vigorous lately and all the loaves had increased volume so much so that the fully proofed bread domed well above the basket rim. I am going to have to reduce the total flour because they no longer fit in a gallon bread bag. 
Proofed

The sweet levain bread has a thinner crust. 

Crumb

The sweet levain is on the left and the sugar free is on the right. In spite of popping many large bubbles when I shaped it the large holes were still prevalent. More than the photo shows because I had already cut two slices from the sweet one that had more strange holes than bread. The crust was much thinner on the sweet bread but that is probably related to not being retarded. The non sugar bread had more volume and a tighter but lighter crumb. 

I don’t know how much to conclude from this bake other than the sweet levain is a gassy unruly dough that is hard to predict. The sugar prolongs the keeping quality but there is a noticeable difference in texture between the two especially when toasted. The sweet levain bread toasted is sort of more like cotton candy. 
I have been using the sweet stiff levain for making 100% WW pan loaves and really like how it works for allowing for a longer proof. I intentionally pushed the fermentation to slightly over proofed because I like the shape and crumb better.

 PBB
Happy baking

Don

 

Comments

Benito's picture
Benito

Nice to see you experimenting with the stiff sweet levain Don.  I rarely bake two loaves so have never done comparison bakes.  In the back of my mind I sort of think of the stiff sweet levain as a LAB reduced levain that results in a bread part way between only yeast and a typical sourdough with a 100:1 ratio of LAB to yeast.  Other than the baguettes, I haven’t really used it for mostly bread flour hearth loaves other than the one time where I also added an egg.  So I haven’t done enough bakes to see the crazy alveoli develop more in the stiff sweet levain breads.  I’ve been doing so much 100% whole grain baking and in those breads I haven’t seen the big alveoli yet.  My original thinking as you have also found is that you can push the fermentation farther in your 100% whole grain breads because you don’t get as much acidity and thus less gluten breakdown by the proteolytic enzymes.  Thus they are great in those breads.

All your bakes look fabulous Don.  Did you find that the stiff sweet levain bread tasted different from the non sweet levain bread?  Was it less sour?

Benny

MTloaf's picture
MTloaf

It takes a lot to heat up the stone in my large oven so I use it while it's hot. I usually have baguette dough at the ready or a breakfast pizza for the morning bake session.  The sweet levain bread is definitely less sour but my breads are not that sour anyway because I use a double fed levain it before it fully peaks. I have been going without the overnight retard lately which reduces the sour taste and makes for a thinner crust. The effect the sugar has on the texture is noticeable in that it is more rigid and has a slightly sweet taste to it.

The sugar levain is now my go to method for 100%WW pan bread. To see it continue to rise up to the top of the pan during the proof is truly amazing. It gets rid of the bitter grassy taste and improves the flavor. 

I have been experimenting with yeast water and it's rising power is even more incredible but I find the taste lacking because the sour note is completely missing.

I have been enjoying these Alt Sourdough experiments and am grateful for this community for all the inspiration to pick and choose from.

Ming's picture
Ming

So no conclusive preference with one over the other? The one with a sweet levain that had a thinner crust sounds pretty good to me. I really that 100% wholegrain toaster bread that has a very nice uninform open crumb. Thanks for sharing this experimentation with us. 

MTloaf's picture
MTloaf

and can't draw many conclusions yet. I think the sweet levain might need an additional fold late in the proof to make the crumb less irregular and to redistribute the gas in the dough. I hope your new starter gets up and going to see what you can do with it in your WW baggies.

Don

happycat's picture
happycat

Interesting experiments.

Would a cold retard also produce a tighter crumb? For some reason I thought so. 

Interesting pockets in the sweet levain loaf. Do you do the patting during shaping that Benny mentioned elsewhere?

A warm dough with extra sugar to eat might be active during shaping. I've felt those poofy kind of doughs, trying to quickly shape them. I think that happened to me this morning.

MTloaf's picture
MTloaf

Believe that a cold retard would create more oven spring from compressed gasses.

Before I shaped this dough I used a toothpick to pop the larger obvious bubbles and I even fold it like a closing a book when it went into the basket. That is why the sugar free dough has a more consistent crumb. 
I think your right about it being a more active dough and it needs to be handled differently. A later fold and a shorter bench rest is what I would do next time. 
We have a cat that I would never use the word happy to describe. 

MTloaf's picture
MTloaf

Recipe

 

Ming's picture
Ming

Pic is too small, can't see any data. 

MTloaf's picture
MTloaf

I tried to make it as big as possible so if it is still not legible maybe you could try the zoom feature on your device. Command + on my computer or the two finger spread on a mobile device. HTH

Ming's picture
Ming

I see it is a little bigger now by hitting a reply, it was really small this morning for some reason. Thanks. 

Dang, this sandwich loaf is worth its own blog, as I think it would give Benny's wholegrain loaf a run for the money. 

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

because the dough often reacts like it is a liquid. With that in mind, would you compare the differences like two different hydration doughs?  The sweet on being higher in hydration even though the water amounts are the same?

MTloaf's picture
MTloaf

 no real thought to a rigid experiment. I started with the same amount of water but I didn't end up with exactly the same amount of water in each because I just add more to the dough while mixing without measuring until it feels right. I agree that the sugar added to the levain acted like water because I was expecting a stiff starter but it was more like a 100% starter. The sugar acts like a liquid in the dough but seems to be a dry out after it bakes making the hydration feel lower.

Benito's picture
Benito

Sugar is hygroscopic so it attracts water so can make the dough feel wetter than it really is yet still have dehydrating effects on the microbes.

MTloaf's picture
MTloaf

Thanks Benny, I couldn’t have said it better myself. It reminds me of the Stephen Wright joke “I put a humidifier and a dehumidifier in the same room and let them fight it out” Makes me think I should try a cinnamon raisin bread with buckwheat or rye and let them all fight it out.