The Fresh Loaf

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Bouabsa Pullman, V1.1

alfanso's picture
alfanso

Bouabsa Pullman, V1.1

Two days ago, misinterpreting what Dan was after, I posted a Pullman loaf that baked up short and dense.  With the feedback from several folks, a few YouTube videos and a consultation with Mr. Hamelman via his book, I made a series of changes, seemingly all for the better.

For that bake I went directly from retard to Pullman with a very tight roll, baked at the normal Bouabsa temp of 480dF on a cookie sheet cooling rack  The changes I made this time:

  • 3.5 hr warmup from retard to shape until the dough grew 50% in the container - perhaps could have waited 4 hours to reach closer to ambient temp.
  • Shaped by gently docking/flattening, a letter fold, turned 90 degrees and rolled up firmly but far from tightly.  Dough reached about halfway or a little more in the tin.
  • Baked at 430dF directly on baking deck
  • Removed from Pullman tin when releasing steam at 13 minute mark.   No tenting required.

Baking time was reduced from ~38 min to ~33 min even though the oven temp was dropped 50dF.  In both instances, I shaped the dough on a wet surface with moist hands in an attempt to keep as much raw flour off the dough as possible.

For a first adjustment with a dough not designed to be a Pullman, and limited loaf pan experience, so far I'm pretty content.

The oven spring compared to the remaining portion of the previous run

You can see the Pullman pan behind the loaf.  Only the crest of the loaf came up as high as the top of the Pullman.  The dough never proofed as far as the pan top.

The crumb.  Definitely softer and more open.  I think this is a nice step up from my first attempt.

  

 

Comments

HeiHei29er's picture
HeiHei29er

Very nice progress Alan.  Is the crumb custard-like?  Looks that way in the last photo. Definitely a step up and looks like an excellent sandwich loaf!

alfanso's picture
alfanso

While soft and chews easily, it doesn't have that quality.  Yes, I went against the wisdom of changing one thing at a time.  There were so many red flags about the last bake, that I relied on those sources to help suss it out for me. 

thanks, Alan

Benito's picture
Benito

Good improvements Alan.  How much does it taste like Bouabsa baguettes?

Benny

alfanso's picture
alfanso

Bouabsa baguette does, rather a bit heartier.  I needed to follow the leader to make corrections.  You may recall that I recently bought the Pullman pan specifically to bake the Hokkaido Milk bread, which I've now baked exactly one time!  Have to get back to it.  Now there's a bread with loft and softness to it.

thanks, Alan

Our Crumb's picture
Our Crumb

I second Benny's question:  How does flavor compare with ~same formula in baggie format?  Or do your process tweaks render the comparison meaningless?  Interesting to know the impact solely of shape.

'Fanso's never far from his baggie comfort zone - first rye baguettes, then Wonderbread from a baguette formula.  Next up: Bouabsa bagels?

t

alfanso's picture
alfanso

Except for that delta in hydration thang. As mentioned recently I've made batards, ciabatta, focaccia and pizza out of the dough.  Next up?  I've been planning a full scale model of a B-52 superfortress made entirely out of Bouabsa dough.  But now I'm not sure if my apartment is large enough to handle that scale.  Where did I put my tape measure?

MTloaf's picture
MTloaf

Slash it! No Alfanso grigne! The split on the side means it was slightly under proofed or needed a score or two or three. How long did you proof it in the pan? Nice colors on the bake and the crumb looks nice. After a couple of days it will be a good candidate for French Toast. 
Don

alfanso's picture
alfanso

including the last 20 minutes in the upper box of our double oven where it picks up heat from below and acts as a proofing box.  It just didn't seem like its was going to take on anymore height.  I had concerns about slashing the top as I didn't know whether that would degas the beast. (every time I type Degas autocorrect changes it to the "Edgar Degas" version as you can see in this sentence.). So I was shy to score the loaf as it was more "poofy" than not.  Should I have taken that gamble?

Thanks, alan

all advice (presented nicely) is appreciated.

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

That is a great looking loaf. Color and crumb looks excellent.

alfanso's picture
alfanso

But I have the feeling that it is indicative of what the remainder of the loaf's crumb will look like.  Took your advice, baked directly on the stone in the tin, and then removed from tin and back to contact with the stone.  The bottom is no longer underdone.  I watched about a half dozen or more videos from RELIABLE sources to get a cross section of styles shaping the dough and a bit of a consensus about it.

thanks for your input, alan

 

MTloaf's picture
MTloaf

Almost demands it and besides your good with a blade.

Don

alfanso's picture
alfanso

that I bought for myself is my styptic pencil, which should last for a few hundred more years since it never seems to wear down.  Maybe I am good with a blade, after all my ear is still attached.  Oh wait, check that remark, I know it's around here somewhere.  Hey Vince, what did you do with yours?

Ming's picture
Ming

LIKED. This is on my list to make. Thanks. 

alfanso's picture
alfanso

If there is any cautionary note, it is that this dough was never designed to be made into anything but baguette form, so there is a drawback to using it for this type of bread form (although I haven't found it yet 🤓).  If a Pullman is on your to-do list, this might not be the best formula to follow, rather one designed for a loaf pan.  That said, experimentation with a background of basic knowledge leads to wonderful things.      

If you decide to use what has become for me a kind of "all purpose" dough, know that it is the simplest dough one could possibly create with the exception the few minutes necessary to incorporate the bassinage.  Once the minuscule amount of IDY is added and dough mixed, 3 folds 20 minutes apart on the countertop and then whisked off to the refrigerator for basically an entire day.

Good luck and do post!

Alan

Ming's picture
Ming

Noted. Thank you. Dang, that crumb looks so pure and enticing....

Benito's picture
Benito

Don mentioned the tears in the side of the loaf, when I looked at your baking procedure the time for steaming stood out.  For baguettes 13 mins is adequate but for what is a taller loaf it is not in my experience.  Now I don’t usually steam because I egg wash and haven’t really found a need for steam, but when I haven’t egg washed I typically did 20-25 mins of steam baking.  I’d say that your top crust formed before the sides and then the loaf had to open somewhere since the top was set so the side crusts opened up.  

alfanso's picture
alfanso

is that there is still insufficient steam for this type of loaf.  What I'm thinking is to remove the loaf from the pan at about the same time mark as before, and at that time to refresh the steam in the lava rock pan as that will have dissipated by then, as well as any residual steam escaping via the door opening.

Just before loading the pan I smoothed the surface of the loaf with a wet hand trying to make the top a bit more uniform.  Therefore it went into the oven with that extra little moisture already affixed atop the loaf.

This is a dilemma as now I'm hot on the trail of a repeat bake incorporating what you just mentioned as well as Don's suggestion of scoring the loaf.  The dilemma is not baking more baguettes or ciabatta!  That's a hard one to deal with 🥲.

Benito's picture
Benito

What I’m suggesting is that you steam for longer, say 20-25 mins.  After that time you can vent the steam. 

I also remove the bread from the pan but not as early as you do.  I actually complete the bake for the usual full bake and then remove from the pan and give the bread an additional 5-10 mins with the bread directly on the baking steel to firm up the side walls, but that isn’t always necessary.  I do that if I’m baking a really tall loaf.  Depending on how dark the crust is I might also just turn the oven off or drop the temperature to 300°F. 

trailrunner's picture
trailrunner

This is why I like the lid sealing it up. The steam is in there and runs out when it needs to...if you will. That looks like a beautiful loaf. It's impossible to judge how much dough to put in to get the perfect fit. Trial and error . I don't shape anymore for the pullman. I now just let the dough fall from the proofing container to the pan which I grease with soft butter. I bake right on the rack no steel under it and no steam added since it is closed. So far so good. I will be home next week and intend to try out a simple white with no Trinity and see what I get. Posting back then. But your loaf if lovely !! 

alfanso's picture
alfanso

As a young child I threw fits if my mother didn't cut off the crust of my Wonder Bread sandwich.  At some stage, likely still in the late pre-teen years, I discovered the sheer delight of crusty breads and made the deli rye, pumpernickels and "corn breads" (not Johnny cakes) from the local bakery part of my diet forever forward.

In Argentina and perhaps Uruguay and a few other S.A. countries one can go into a cafeteria and order a sandwich of "pan de miga", basically what I clamored for as a child.  Miga means crumb or the "white" part of a bread in Spanish.  

I knew nothing of the Pullman world until way late into my adulthood (too late).  Although I marvel at the perfect square breads that emerge from lidded Pullmans (ever see the contraption that does the same to a hard boiled egg?), they are missing that one component that sends my taste buds into orbit - the crust, I mean The Crust!

Compound that with the fact that I only recently bought a Pullman pan without the lid.  I like the idea of just dropping the BF'ed dough into the pan, but I also admit that I get my thills from shaping (a tale of a forelorn life), and as this is a new skill for me, for the moment I'll try to get my chops down shaping pan loaves first, and keep your method as a benchwarmer for now. 

Thanks for the compliment, the delta between the first bake and this is encouraging.  My next goal is to figure out how to have the loaf do more than come up even with the top of the pan without adding more dough while still taking the tutelage offered to task.  

alan

trailrunner's picture
trailrunner

The butter on the Pullman and lid makes a wondrous crust. Very flavorful and crisp like a cracker almost. The loaf sang when I took it out of the oven. The crisp crust is why we like Pullman loaves best. I look forward to your bakes. c

happycat's picture
happycat

Thanks for mentioning this. I didn't know these benefits. Certainly makes the pan more interesting to me!

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

Interesting comment, Caroline. I have know (and experienced) that using a non-stick spray on a USA pan well mess up the pans surface. 

Will try butter. The crust you described sounds great. 

trailrunner's picture
trailrunner

I have the  USA pan and it says on it no PAM type sprays. I take softened butter and use a pastry brush and liberally spread it on all surfaces including the lid. It smells amazing when baking and the crust is golden and just as crisp as a crouton....in fact that is what I would compare it to a very nice crouton texture. The butter adds a lovely dimension to the flavor whether eaten as is or toasted. Please report back. c

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

I am excited to try. 

alfanso's picture
alfanso

Already within a few days and two bakes, and now the aftermath, I'm learning so much about these pans and using them.  I plead guilty to using canola oils spray in my USA Pullman, Your Honor.  Fortunately I've used it only a grand total of three times since it became part of the household.

After this loaf is consumed, I think I'll go to a more traditional formula - with butter slathered on the interior of the pan.

When I had a career, so long ago now I can hardly see it in the rear-view mirror anymore, I was programmer and I'd say I got things wrong more than I got them right.  But it was all part of the iterative process, and it was what was eventually turned over which counted.  Same kind of thing here.  With fewer iterations!

Thanks again Alan

Benito's picture
Benito

I will say that I never use butter or spray in my pullman for which I do not have a lid.  Instead I origami fold a single pice of parchment that prevents any contact between the dough and the pan.  It works so well that I seldom have to wash the pan itself and in fact I use the parchment several times before it tears and I have to fold another one.

Benny

trailrunner's picture
trailrunner

BUTTER flavor....it's remarkable and it's only about 1 tbsp full at most for the whole 13" pan. You will see...you will never use parchment again :) 

 

 

Benito's picture
Benito

For some reason, my USA Pans pullman was made is such a way that if I don’t use parchment some of the crust will bake into the folds of the pan in one corner.  I then cannot release the bread from the pan without damaging it or the pan.  So unfortunately I can’t use only butter alone which I’m sure just adds more flavour and would be great.

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

Benny, maybe you got a bad pan. I put dough in the USA pans without anything and bread never sticks. 

trailrunner's picture
trailrunner

r. The duration of warranty coverage for USA PAN® Bakeware is lifetime. 

SHIPPING OUTSIDE THE CONTINENTAL UNITED STATES:

Warranty shipping expenses, including but not limited to shipping costs, fees, duties, and shipping related damages, for any items shipped outside of the 48 continental United States are the sole responsibility of the original purchaser.

TO OBTAIN WARRANTY SERVICE

STEP 1. Email info@usapan.com. with the following information: (1) photo(s) of claimed defective product(s); (2) a written description of the claimed defect(s); (3) a description of any related circumstances thought to have caused the claimed defect; (4) the name of the product; (5) the product dimensions; (6) your name; and (7) a copy of your proof of purchase. Alternatively, you may write a letter, containing all aforementioned information, to the following mailing address:

USA Pan
Attn: Customer Service
33 McGovern Blvd.
Crescent, PA 15046

Please ensure to include your return email address or return mailing address within your email or letter so that our customer service team may contact you. Our customer service team will respond with next steps (including proper mailing address) if the product meets our warranty stipulations (see above). No items will be accepted without prior written approval from USA PAN®.

STEP 2. After receiving authorization from USA PAN® Customer Service, please reply with your ship to address, as well as any other information that is requested.

STEP 3. Please then return by mail the product(s), packaed in the original carton (or equivalent), to the mailing address provided by our customer service team. Place a copy of the authorization from USA PAN® Customer Service within the packaging of your returned product(s). Please also include a copy of your dated invoice, keeping the original invoice for your records. Returns not bearing return authorization information and/or a copy of the original invoice may be refused.

 hope this helps

 

Benito's picture
Benito

Thank you Caroline, I will have to look into this upon my return home.  I didn’t travel with my pullman pan surprisingly 😜. When I look at the inside of the pan, I cannot see an actual defect, but for some reason, the bread bakes itself into one corner every time.  I don’t mind and have gotten used to using the parchment so it’s not a big deal really.

trailrunner's picture
trailrunner

Pulling a uhaul trailer with all my brother in laws belongings.. long family story. 

USA prides themselves on their product. I got on Facebook and posted my pics of Pullman loaf. They respond to everyone. Great customer service. If you have a picture of a baked stick loaf they will definitely replace because others have posted pics and they immediately respond with contact us to return pan. 

I can’t believe you didn’t pack it in your bag!!

MTloaf's picture
MTloaf

I only wipe out the pan with a paper towel to clean it. My loaves shrink from the edge and that is when I know they are near done. They just fall out at that point. The shiny pans work best for me on the lower oven rack. 
Don

trailrunner's picture
trailrunner

That’s true of my loaves as well. I hope Bennie can return his pan. They aren’t an inexpensive purchase. 

happycat's picture
happycat

Gorgeous crumb looks somtasty. Really makes me wonder what it would be like in the Pullman with the lid on.

alfanso's picture
alfanso

But it seems that all things being equal (which they rarely are!), as the dough domed but barely peeked over the edge of the pan, that it might look quite similar.  Both Dan and Caroline have a pretty fair knowledge of using these pans with lids, so if they care to point you to a few of their bakes, I'll let them take it from here.

thanks, Alan

trailrunner's picture
trailrunner

I wanted to also comment on volume of dough. I used approx 1400 g of dough for my loaves that I posted most recently. I saw that someone posted to use 900g in a 13"  pullman. You can see what a huge disparity there is . If you use whole grains it takes way more dough and plain white takes way less. My dough was about 1/2'' below the top edge of the pan when I put it in the fridge to hibernate. I was worried that the crumb would be compressed as I couldn't budge the lid the next AM before baking and I didn't try very hard as I didn't want to ruin it. But low and behold some kind of miracle takes place as it bakes and it fills the pan perfectly and it isn't compressed at all. It was 375 for 55 min with the lid on the first 30 and off for 25. I haven't tried an all white bake with no added trinity in the pullman so we shall see . I am going to make enough dough that I can be sure the pan is pretty full after 30 min at room temp and then overnight retard. I like it really squared off now that I have managed that 2x . In the past with the pullman I managed it also but I haven't looked back to try and find those posts. So I am sort of starting anew  and actually keeping records LOL !

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

Even is the pan is slightly over-filled the braed turns out fine. The dough in the image above was baked just as pictured. When the bake was complete the over flow was cracked off and the crumb was fine. The TDW was reduced by 50g next bake to tweak the perfect weight.

trailrunner's picture
trailrunner

when I first got my pan I had that over flow ! I was so worried I would  hear a boom !!! In the oven but as you said it cracked off and all was perfect and somehow the crumb adjusts

gavinc's picture
gavinc

Allan, the crust and crumb look really nice. This has been an interesting thread to read, particularly the comments about the Pullman pan usage. I bought a 13 inch (330 mm) Pullman Pan from the US a few months ago, primarily to make Debra Wink's 100% whole-wheat sandwich loaf. That has been a learning experience in both her formula and process to fill this size pan. I haven't baked with the lid as yet as I like the look and top crust without it. Most surprisingly, was that only 800-gram dough rose to the top of the pan!. The baked loaf was very light.

I prep the pan with a drizzle of olive oil and wiped over with a paper towel. I don't wash it afterwards, just wipe out with some paper towel. Luckily I read in the instructions not to use spray oils.

Cheers,

Gavin

 

alfanso's picture
alfanso

without hijacking the subject matter.  As in the extended conversations here.  It's indeed a learning experience from active participants we come to trust.  

I did brush the pan this next time, meaning this morning,  with melted butter instead of the spray oil.  And I think that my shaping has also taken a half step up. This time I scaled out 900g to fill my 9x4x4, adding the extra grams because this formula, from the Weekend Bakery, has ~40% semolina.  I've made them as baguettes before so I know what I'm getting into, although the Weekend Bakery made a batard as their loaf.  All bets are off dropping it into a pan until the action ensues.  Fingers crossed that this dough will rise on the final proof in the pan. 

I checked the USA Pan website to see whether they sell the lids independent of the pan.  They don't, at least as far as I could tell. 

Thanks, Alan 

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

Alan, you might be able to place a small flat baking pan on top, with a little weight (brick?) added to it for a “make do” cover.

I’d bet that the large pullman cover would fit the small Pullman pan.

alfanso's picture
alfanso

but figured if available I'd go for broke and pick it up.  Just because...  Even if the larger cover would slide on, apparently USA doesn't sell them stand-alone.

happycat's picture
happycat

What about these options

https://www.webstaurantstore.com/2421/bread-loaf-pans.html?filter=type:pullman-pans

Might help lock in steam and avoid the side tearing during oven spring

alfanso's picture
alfanso

pan lengths.  Not so sure I'd trust two competing companies' sizes to align just right, especially when wanting tight fit.  But in reality I like the domed effect on a loaf, it is just so much more familiar to me.

In the future I'll likely attempt to score the loaf, but in truth, I kinda like the way the side tear looks.

Thanks for the link, Alan

Benito's picture
Benito

Gavin, I think my dough weight is about the same as yours for your larger pan size is primarily because I aim for a taller loaf profile than I think you do with your loaves.  I think that the tall loaf is a characteristic of a Hokkaido milk bread with the four lobes that I like.  If I wanted a more typical sandwich bread profile I would certainly reduce the dough weight.

gavinc's picture
gavinc

Hi Benny,

Yes. Your Hokkaido milk bread certainly looks great and is a much different in process and ingredients than mine. They sure look enticing. 

Cheers,

Gavin