The Fresh Loaf

A Community of Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts.

KA getting tired. Dedicated bread?

Gadjowheaty's picture
Gadjowheaty

KA getting tired. Dedicated bread?

My humble KA 4.5 is getting tired.  I'm astounded it's lasted these many years given how much abuse I've given it.  I'd hope to let it retire to the green pastures of genoise batter or meringues, but I hope I have something left in the life of the machine before it dies completely.

So, some point coming up I'll need a dedicated dough machine.  I salivate at a Famag spiral or Santos fork mixer but can't justify it at least for now.  So likely looking for a good, strong planetary.  I've only used KA all my life, so know very little about other makes.  I follow Lutz Geissler alot, and i know he's very fond of his Kenwoods, Cooking Chef and Titanium.  

Up to maybe $700.

Thoughts?

britt's picture
britt

If you are willing to stay with KitchenAid I love my artisan pro stand mixer. Depending on the color you choose they are on Amazon for less than $700. Mine easily kneads pasta and bread dough with no issues. I got mine as a scratch and dent for considerably less. If you have any kitchenaid attachments they will work with a new stand mixer and stronger/ better/ faster than before. 

Sorry to hear about the passing of your little helper friend! 

 

Gadjowheaty's picture
Gadjowheaty

Thanks Britt, I was just looking at it.  This KA has been a workhorse -  thanks for your condolences, lol - and I got it used off eBay many years ago, so I do trust the brand.  Do you know if the spiral dough hook will work on this model?  Have you tried it?  Or anyone who has, mind giving your thoughts - is it better than the standard "C" hook?

britt's picture
britt

I have ever tried a C hook to compare. But yes - it comes with a spiral hook and it works great for me. Sometimes I start out using my danish dough whisk to get everything to come together and then let the mixer do the rest. 

My Mom has had her KA since the late 1960s and it still works! Hers is pea green color though. :-)

britt's picture
britt

The capacity is 7 quarts which means if you use your mixer to make small batches of things (like whipped butter) it can be annoying. 

The head does not tilt - which is what I think you are used to. KA stand mixers are more powerful because they don't have the tilt head. 

There is no glass bowel - I don't care about that but you might. The reason supposedly is that the mixer is too powerful and could crack the glass. 

I blew out my first KA (which was a tilt and their weakest model) but I keep it on hand for small batches. Sounds like you are going to try to keep your old KA and could do that too. There are tutorials on You Tube that will show you how to refurbish your old  one if you dare.....

 

Petek's picture
Petek

The spiral hook is much better than the C hook. My first KA came with a C hook. The dough just climbed up the C hook and spun around. KA was criticized for this behavior. They released the spiral hook, which kneads the dough more roughly.

naturaleigh's picture
naturaleigh

I just purchased a new stainless spiral dough hook to replace the sad C hook for my smaller 4.5 qt KA mixer.  I've only used it once but the difference was remarkable in how much better it worked the dough and in a shorter period of time.  I'm looking forward to using it again this weekend.  It is definitely a big improvement over the C hook.

Colin2's picture
Colin2

Can I ask where you got it?  I have a K45SS.  Kitchenaid makes a spiral hook for the 5 quart but as far as I can tell none for the 4.5. Maybe I am missing something.   These Dutch "superdough" people have an aftermarket hook, the JP12 I think, which is tempting though it would be about 50 Euro.  

naturaleigh's picture
naturaleigh

Hi Colin!  I missed your question somehow...apologies.  I ordered mine on Amazon because I couldn't find it anywhere else.  It definitely works with the 4.5 QT machine because that's what I have...same model number in fact.  It's a tilt head. 

I recently posted links for the spiral hook for both the tilt head and lift machines on another thread but can't seem to track down the thread (the only thing I don't like about TFLs website...the search function is not great sometimes).  It isn't a Kitchenaid brand but another fabricator. 

I used it again just today and am still in love.  It does a great job mixing and kneading...I incorporated butter and extra milk into the dough for rolls and it made short work of both.  When I took the dough off the hook to test window pane, I was able to stretch the dough up at least 8 inches.  I could have gone more, the dough and gluten was that elastic.  The cost for me was around 24.00 USD, so money well spent for sure.  Early days yet, but I don't foresee any issues...very happy with my purchase.  I don't know if this is also available in Europe or not though.

Tilt Head Spiral Dough Hook, 4.5-5.0 QT KA Mixer

Lift Stand Spiral Dough Hook, 5/6/7 QT KA Mixer  (just now seeing 'currently unavailable)

Colin2's picture
Colin2

Boom!  Bought.  We'll see how it turns out.  Thanks very much for this.

naturaleigh's picture
naturaleigh

Good luck!  And, I hope you enjoy it as much as I've enjoyed using mine so far.  Let us know what you think once you do your first test drive!

Benito's picture
Benito

Yes Colin please report back on your thoughts of using the spiral dough hook compared to the C hook.  I may have missed it but did you order the exact same hook that Leigh did and do you have the 4.5 or the 5 qt KA tilt head mixer?

I’m still hoping that end of the next week I’ll be in the US and can order the spiral dough hook from Amazon.com where it is less than half the price it is up here in Canada.

Benny

suave's picture
suave

I though they only made stainless steel implements for the NSF-certified mixer.

Camarie's picture
Camarie

I bought this used Globe mixer from Ebay. It works great!! Had to buy the bowl & beaters separately though. But I'll never do THAT again!! They should come with the mixer!!

happycat's picture
happycat

In Toronto there are a few places that advertise Kitchenaid Mixer repairs. Some even have pickup/dropoff service. 

I repaired my own espresso grinder a couple times, and my home dryer. Might be worth refurbishing yourself or getting someone to do it.

If it's gears + grease, or maybe a motor the rest of the appliance is still quite valuable.

Gadjowheaty's picture
Gadjowheaty

I am a mechanical moron, but have done stuff (like building a PID controller for a cheese vat) when someone or some web page holds my hand.  Never thought of that, will look into it.  Whether I keep this for all things, or let it go into a gentle retirement with pastry work and use another for bread, this is good to know.  Thanks.

britt's picture
britt

In the end all my little KA needed was grease...... and for me to never ever again try to knead four loaves of bread in it.

You Tube has tutorials - the grease is gross but I'm sure you can figure it out. :-)

Even if you retire your KA keep the stainless steel mixing bowl in the kitchen. So many uses for it and it's an heirloom piece. 

 

foodforthought's picture
foodforthought

...is noisier than my older version, but it has worked pretty well with up to 3 kg of high hydration (80%+) ciabatta dough. It recently balked at 2.5 kg of low hydration (<60%) hydration croissant dough so max capacity is in that range. I’ve been abusing it for 8+ years since killing off the old one in a 120 dozen Christmas cookie frenzy. Comes with hook, paddle and whisk. I usually mix with paddle until1/2-2/3 of flour incorporated, then finish with hook. Seems like the new motors are lighter and noisier. Have been occasionally scanning for a smallish classic (pre-Whirlpool) Hobart but this one works pretty well for now. Costco has them fairly regularly.

Gadjowheaty's picture
Gadjowheaty

Thanks for the comments guys, a lot of help.  

alcophile's picture
alcophile

I just purchased a Bosch Compact mixer to handle dough mixing because of a shoulder injury. I had a good recommendation from a TFL member who preferred it over an Ankarsrum. It has a 4-qt bowl and planetary action. So far, it has mixed 1-kg doughs with no problem, including a pasty dough for the Lithuanian Black Bread from The Rye Baker website. I also like it because I can easily lift it with one hand to put it away when not in use.

It supposedly can handle up to 6-lb of dough, but I'll never know, as that way too much bread at one time. For larger amounts, there are the Bosch Universal or the Nutrimill Artiste, but I don't have any personal experience with them.

barryvabeach's picture
barryvabeach

You have a lot of options for a dedicated bread kneader.  I have an older KA, and think it is really a all purpose mixer, IMO , not ideal for bread.  I have owned a Bosch Universal ( the model before the plus ) and the Bosh Compact, and they both do a gread job on bread , though the Compact looks like a toy, it is pretty good.  Not to disagree with Alcophile, but I still prefer my Ank for bread kneading.  I have never had problems with large or small dough amounts, ( certain batch sizes at high hydration can be problematic in the Bosch Universal, since it may wrap around the column, and not get kneaded. .  It may be possible to burn out an Ank making dough, but I have never heard of it happening.  

Gadjowheaty's picture
Gadjowheaty

Thanks guys.  I'd looked at both earlier on before I started lusting after a 15L Famag (I know).  One issue I've always had with my small KA is with sticky rye breads.  If I use the C hook for any length of time, it just burrows a cave and the rest lays up and over, barely getting incorporated.  I have to often stop, push the mass down, and start again - constantly.  PITA when I'm doing something with an extended Speed 1 mix, like pumpernickel.

I can use the paddle, but then it will tend to pick up the mass, and it becomes a glob around the paddle, and again, little is really freshly mixed through with each revolution.  That, and the engine heats up badly after any length of time.

I presume either the Bosch or Ank will handle these well?  Probably unreachable - if I don't want  to die by spousal fury - but spirals like the Famag do all doughs pretty well, yes? 

suave's picture
suave

I typically mix my (high percentage) ryes by hand, well, with a wooden spoon really, but when I use KA it's with a paddle attachment.  I find that when the hydration is right, paddle does a great job, but you do need to help if a spatula every once in a while.  

barryvabeach's picture
barryvabeach

Gadjowheaty,  if you are interested in a used Ank, the prices are not that bad,  ( there are a few that sold for about $300 including shipping , though you need to search under the older names like Electrolux and AEG - which were prior names for similar models )  If you have a real interest, send me a recipe for a rye bread and I can try it in the mine, which is the Electrolux.   

Camarie's picture
Camarie

 For the same money, or a little bit less, you can also get the Nutrimill Artiste. It's a great mixer!! I have one.
Gadjowheaty's picture
Gadjowheaty

Thanks guys, for your input.  After sitting with things for awhile, I've decided to work this old workhorse to death then get something else.  I purchased a spiral hook that fits the tilt-head 4/5 qt. so we'll see how that goes - Naturalleigh, thanks for the cite!  I got this for very little and it's gone way past when I would have expected it would last so it's been worthwhile regardless.

On the Ank and related designs, guys.  The Ank was the first mixer I saw years ago that grabbed me.  I have looked into them more since this thread and I have to be totally honest, I've got some concerns, maybe you could offer your experiences?  Lots of negative reviews with pictures on Amazon with stripped or outright broken plastic gears, arm-lock knobs, etc. - plastic in the dough or batter.  Videos with dough doing nothing or spinning around the bowl getting no real kneading.  One I saw, which was a particular issue for me, was adding water in after initial mixing (either bassinage or adding in as a second part).  The mixer just didn't want to take up the water and incorporate it in the initially-mixed dough.

At $700 (granted, new) this does concern me.  Yet I know Barry and I think Camarie, with your Nutrimill, that's a similar design, yes? - you are really happy with your units.  Your thoughts, given some of these reviews and reservations?  

Thanks for the posts guys.

 

Paul

semolina_man's picture
semolina_man

KA motor and gearbox are replaceable.  Google is the friend on this. 

Camarie's picture
Camarie

In case your KA mixer might need new grease, here's a vid that I saw on YouTube that might help.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ND1b9P2iubg

Gadjowheaty's picture
Gadjowheaty

Awesome, thanks Camarie!  

Camarie's picture
Camarie

You're welcome!!

 

Gadjowheaty's picture
Gadjowheaty

Thanks for this one too.  

Spiral hook for the 4.5 is arriving today.  Really curious to try it out.

barryvabeach's picture
barryvabeach

Paul,

Lots of negative reviews with pictures on Amazon with stripped or outright broken plastic gears, arm-lock knobs, etc. - plastic in the dough or batter.

 I went to Amazon, and read all the 1, 2 and 3 star reviews.  The stripped plastic gears are not when kneading dough.  There is a separate bowl with plastic gears and 2 different sets of beaters. I have used the plastic bowl for whipping cream, and it is fine for that,  I don't use it for tougher things like cookie dough or butter.  Not sure if the posters used it with cold butter, or too stiff a mix, but I wouldn't worry about those reviews at all if you are making bread, since you would never try to do that in the plastic bowl.  The metal bowl is driven by a belt drive and an electronically controlled motor,  I have never read of one failing.

For the knob,  it didn't break,  the video shows that it came loose. It looks like they failed to use the right amount of loctite at the factory.  BTW, I don't work for Ankarsrum, but I am familiar with machining techniques.  The knob in question is on the end of a threaded rod -  since the rod is threaded, at the factory, they likely would have screwed the knob onto the rod with some loctite, and it should never break free.  i would think they would have sent a replacement knob assembly if the poster asked.

There were a number of complaints that it did not look like it was doing anything.  True enough, it does not look like the same action as the KA - but it squeezes the dough -  check out Ashley's videos.

A number of complaints that the dough just sits there and does not get manitpulated.  If the roller is too close, that can happen.  Also , it can happen when you add the water after the dough has kneaded a bit  ( as in a bassinage )  I rarely do a double hydration, because it is not needed, but when I do, you have to push the arm in the middle back and forth several times for a few minutes.  Many users say to put in the water first then add flour to get around that.   

There were a few complaints that didn't give enough info on why they didn't like it,  So far, I have owned a KA ,  3 different model Bosch's and the Ank, and the Ank wins hands down.  There are some that suggest the FAMAG is better, especially with larger size loaves, though that costs twice what the Ank costs.  BTW,  I have not owned the newest KA, which supposedly has an upgraded motor, though I would think it has its own quirks-  like having to drop the bowl to add ingredients,  etc.  Any other questions, let me know,   As you can tell I am a big fan.   Barry.