The Fresh Loaf

A Community of Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts.

Legal Second Home Oven for Bread

SourMom's picture
SourMom

Legal Second Home Oven for Bread

What ovens do home bakers use for baking beside your kitchen stove?

My house is too hot to bake lots of bread in the summer. I want to buy a second oven to put in our carport so I can start cranking our summer loaves.

However, any commercial oven will void my homeowners insurance.

I know I can’t be the only one with this issue. Any solutions?

Thank you!

SourMom

 

 

 

GaryBishop's picture
GaryBishop

I've always thought building a brick oven would be a fun project. 

But, I think you'd come out better in the long run figuring out how to cool/vent your kitchen and maybe increase your home's value in the process. 

Gadjowheaty's picture
Gadjowheaty

Gary, are you talking about putting in a hearth oven in your kitchen, or using your current oven and modding it for vented baking?

If the former, there's a nice book out there, Great Kitchens: At Home with America's Top Chefs.  No plans, but plenty of discussion and excellent photography, along with a floor plan of each chef's kitchens.  Lots of hearth ovens, even an open pit.  Very cheap used on Amazon.

Good luck.

 

Paul

GaryBishop's picture
GaryBishop

No, I was replying to a post suggesting that SourMom might want to build one on the patio. I don't bake enough to justify building one myself. 

 

justkeepswimming's picture
justkeepswimming

It depends on how much you bake at one time. We are a household of 2. As summer temps fast approaching here in AZ, I generally cook outside more often.  The crock pot, air fryer, and barbecue grill have all played a role in our "outdoor kitchen".

I am now beginning to experiment with baking in a toaster oven that we just set up on the back patio. The size limits me to 1 loaf per bake, but that's all I do at one time anyway. I'll try to post today's bake sometime tomorrow. 🤞

SourMom's picture
SourMom

Thank you! AZ is hot! I’m in Cali, but you got us beat in the heat dept!🔥

justkeepswimming's picture
justkeepswimming

... my first try in the toaster oven. See what you think here if interested. 

And CA gets pretty darn hot in places too! 

Mary

SourMom's picture
SourMom

Hi! I could see the load but I bet it is beautiful.

 

Thank you for your help. 

GaryBishop's picture
GaryBishop
SourMom's picture
SourMom

Very interesting. In any case, I do need an oven that gets to 500 degrees. 

why are there not a zillion outdoor ovens? 

😂

GaryBishop's picture
GaryBishop

Maybe insulation? I wonder if you could get higher temps by wrapping it in something. 

Ambimom's picture
Ambimom

I bake two loaves every 10 days in my Breville Toaster Oven.  It sits on a shelf.  It's also a convection oven, toaster, broiler, roaster et.al.  So much more efficient than my wall oven, AND it turns off on its own.

barryvabeach's picture
barryvabeach

SourMom, not sure I understand the issue.  If you install a normal commercial range in a house and it leads to a fire, yes, the insurance company will likely deny coverage because a commercial range usually has specifications - such as it must not be installed next to flammables - like wooden kitchen cabinets, and if it was not installed in accord with those specs, they may say it is your fault (  The home versions of prostyle ranges have a lot of extra insulation so they can be installed in a home kitchen)..  On the other hand,  assuming you have a covered car port, you can call your insurance agent and check, but I doubt a countertop commercial oven will present a problem.  Cadco , Bakers Pride, Avantco, etc make ovens that plug into standard outlets,  and as long as you keep them the specified distance from flammable materials, so there is plenty of air around them,  I doubt that would cause a problem with your homeowners insurance if the house caught on fire.    Near me,  used Cadco's are available fairly regularly.  Since they are convection only, you would likely need to use a DO, but otherwise, I don't see a real fire risk. 

SourMom's picture
SourMom

The info I have says installing a commercial oven in a residence will void my homeowners insurance in Los Angeles.

 

I’d be really happy if that wasn’t true. But assuming it is, I was curious what other people do to get around it. 

GaryBishop's picture
GaryBishop

Your carport is not "in" your residence. It is outside. Check with your insurance company. I think the rules for what you can do outside are very different than inside.

SourMom's picture
SourMom

Hmmmmm. I like how you think! I’ll make the call and let you know.

idaveindy's picture
idaveindy

Sour:

(Welcome "back" to TFL!)

What kind of oven depends on your needs, wants, plans, etc.

What kinds of bread are you planning to bake?  

What's your preferred or desired steaming method?  Cloche over a stone? Dutch oven? Clay baker?  Steaming tray/towels?  Do you want to inject steam?

How many loaves, of what size, are to be baked at once?

How protected will the oven be in the carport?  Will you need to cover it somehow when not in use to protect it?  Will it  need to be protected from a _heavy_ storm where the wind blows the rain in sideways?

What outdoor cooking things do you already have? They might be easily adapted to bread.  Covered gas grill ?  Charcoal kettle grill?  Kamado style? (ala Big Green Egg?)  With the right stones, heat/flame diverters,  and unglazed clay tiles, some types of grills can be adapted for bread in a dutch oven.  Charcoal is a bit trickier, but doable.

--

Just throwing out an idea...  how about a used home-style electric range/oven for $100 to $150 from the used appliance store? That's a full size stove/oven for the price of a good new countertop toaster oven.

--

Anyways, please tell us what your baking goals, plans, and intentions are, and what your current indoor baking vessels are, and what outdoor grills you already have.

SourMom's picture
SourMom

I called my insurance and they are going to get back to me on Monday.

They didn’t seem surprised at the idea so that’s encouraging. 😄

I currently use a Dutch oven and it works gorgeously. But I’m open to adaptations. I’m looking at either the Blodgett SHO, BDO or Zephaire convection oven. 

I want to be able to do 6-8 loaves at a time. Once or twice a week.

I do a lot of creative home arts and I want to start YouTubing how-to videos in crafts and baking. I’m not looking to start a bakery yet. That would be a few years down the line.

Sugarowl's picture
Sugarowl

If you are operating under a Cottage Food Law, please check your regulations. Mine (FL) will not allow any oven other than the one oven inside the home (a regular double is okay, but any additional are not). Any equipment used must be inside the house (in the common area) and not outside or in a garage. Also, even if you were looking into a commercial oven be aware that their electrical requirements are very different from basic home ovens. You may or may not have the right circuits or even wires. I can't even have a second fridge in the garage dedicated to cakes or breads. I don't know how that would translate to a backyard oven, but I imagine our neighbors wouldn't like the smoke.

SourMom's picture
SourMom

Thank you for your help. This forum is an amazing resource!

I called my insurance and they have no problem with a second oven in my garage. No changes to my insurance are needed.

IF I SELL my baked goods, I would need business insurance which would only be about $90/month. 

Cottage Food in California has an A and B permit. Permit A is for food like bread, jams, stuff without dairy or meat basically. And they don't need to check your kitchen. 

The B permit is harder to get and they do come to check your kitchen and make sure it is food safe.

Thank you again for taking the time to answer my question.

xoM

 

FloridaShark's picture
FloridaShark

You may want to look into something like this, seems like a perfect solation.

Rofco B40 Electric Stone Bread Oven (pleasanthillgrain.com)

SourMom's picture
SourMom

Oh my heart! I have been eyeing this oven for so long but it's out of stock!

However, I am able to only get a gas appliance, as there's not enough power in my garage for electric. I can renovate to accommodate but at the moment it's not cost effective.

Bless you for finding that oven! They are back ordered until March 2022!

Thank you for your help.

Sugarowl's picture
Sugarowl

You said you are in California? California says you can only use your home's kitchen and all other rooms are only for storage, so appliances in the garage is a no-no. Just something the inspector might point out if you get inspected.

GaryBishop's picture
GaryBishop

I think refrigerators, freezers, washers and dryers are pretty common in garages.

idaveindy's picture
idaveindy

Its only in regards to appliances used to prepare food for resale.

SourMom's picture
SourMom

We have a gas line and water line in the garage that was there when we bought the house. It was inspected and permitted. It’s meant for a washer-dryer. 

SourMom's picture
SourMom

My insurance ok’d the second oven for home prep and if I decide to sell it would be a $90/mo business insurance.

More than anything that’s my primary concern. Insurance. 

Still making calls to various offices. There’s always a way if you keep asking.

I’ll let you know what conclusion I come too!