The Fresh Loaf

A Community of Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts.

Flour mix

Yippee's picture
Yippee

Flour mix

Hi, 

If a formula requires a 50/50 mix of cake flour/bread flour, and I only have pastry flour (.52 ash/10% protein) and AP (.56 ash/10-10.5% protein) flour, at what ratio should I mix them to achieve the desired effect in the recipe?

Thx,

Yippee

Ilya Flyamer's picture
Ilya Flyamer

What's the protein content in all these flours?

Yippee's picture
Yippee

in Q, Ilya. 

Yippee

Ilya Flyamer's picture
Ilya Flyamer

Well, what is the protein content in the bread flour that is called for?.. Or what would it be in the bread flour you would use, if you had some?

Ilya Flyamer's picture
Ilya Flyamer

But if the bread flour has more than 11 % protein you can't replicate this mix with these flours at all. So I guess the best you could do is use all AP flour.

idaveindy's picture
idaveindy

depends on the intended protein content of the cake flour.

 But, I think just as importantly, there are characteristics to these flours other than protein.  The W rating (strength), and P/L rating (ratio of elasticity/extensibility) are not always in direct relation to the % protein. (You can see this by reviewing the specs for Caputo flours.)

Since cake flour (at less than .50% ash) is usually more refined than your .52% pastry flour, which is more refined than your .56% AP...

and because the ash% of American white/refined bread flour is still in the .52 to .56% range (same as AP)....

then I would skew the ratio more towards pastry,  becasue the W and P/L of pastry is closer to cake flour. 

Just going by intuition or gut-feel, my guess would be something in the range of 60/40 to 66/34 pastry-to-AP.  It could swing as widely as 55/45 to 75/25.

But the similarity of pastry flour to cake flour may not be sufficiently close, in the key axis/spectrum/attribute that the formula requires, in order to reach the same goal.

Or, as they say in Maine... "You can't get to they-ah from hee-ah."

But it's fun to experiment.

Yippee's picture
Yippee

Obviously, I misinterpreted the formula because it intends to use 50/50 of T45 ( .45 ash) and T55 (.55 ash) flour. So, based on the specs of my flours, would you say I can roughly use 50 pastry 50 AP?

Thx

Yippee

 

idaveindy's picture
idaveindy

and more info is needed from the author, or else you need to describe the recipe and work backwards from there.

Not all T45 is the same protein. Not all T55 is the same protein.

Because T indicates ash, therefore different T45's can have different protein levels.

And different T55's can have different protein levels.

Here's a link illustrating: https://www.grandsmoulinsdeparis.com/produits/farines.html

By studying the products, I looked at Moul Bie, looking in the PDF specification files for protein %, you can see it's complicated, this cross-national matching thing.

(It's confusing ... like how King Arthur AP flour is equivalent to most others' bread flour.)

But in the US, protein is the main thing, and ash comes secondary. Ack!

So, at this point, I think you need to ascertain "which" T45 and "which" T55 the author meant. Or, just guess and jump in.

I know, it's confusing to match flours across different national systems, because the ash spectrum is orthogonal to the protein spectrum.  N'est pas?

User mwilson may be of more help.

Yippee's picture
Yippee

I have lots of extra fancy durum flour which I need to use up before it goes rancid. What are your thoughts on replacing bread flour with durum flour? Thx.

Yippee

The Roadside Pie King's picture
The Roadside Pi...

As long one keeps in mind that, although durum wheat is high in protein, the gluten network is not altogether the same as what bread flour would yield. That being said, treat your durum with respect and a light touch, the results will astound you! 

 Will F.