yikes! 8 cups flour yields only 12 bagels? no wonder I can only eat one a day. whew.
they look great, though. another friend made bagels today, too.

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Okay, but do they taste like "bagels", as in the kind you get here on the West Coast, or actual bagels, as made by a good Jewish shop in NYC? That's what I want to know. :)

Also, where do you find malt powder? I've looked for it at my local grocery store and didnt see it. Was it in the baking aisle or elsewhere?

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I'm a gentile who grew up on the West Coast, so I make no claims of it tasting like an authentic NYC bagel. I wouldn't know one if it bit me.

I will say that they taste as good as the best authentic seeming bagels I've had from bagel shops out here, and I thought that they were much better than the pillowy steamed bagels from Noah's or the Safeway bakery or any of the frozen bagels from the grocery store that I've tried.

I found an 8 ounce jar at Wild Oats for like 3 bucks. They had a couple of different brands as well as malt syrup. I believe the label said "Barley Malt Powder" on it and, yeah, I think it was on the baking aisle. I don't recall exactly because I was chasing my 3 year old around the store when we came across it.

If all else fails, it is inexpensive to order online.

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I made them last night/this morning and they are pretty good! Definitely better than Noah's etc (which are so NOT bagels, but merely bad bread in bagel form). I think next time I would add a little less salt, and I'd bake them a little longer... they need to be crunchier on the outside. But the texture was great and the flavor was *almost* there.

"Real" bagels have a little sourness and depth to the flavor I didnt get. I wonder if they use starter? I also think I cant get my oven hot enough to get that real crisp crust... I'm going to try some water in a pan in the oven next time, like you do with baguettes, to see if that helps.

I found the barley malt at Whole Foods, just for the record. :-)

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OMG, we just had some leftover from this morning, and they are amazing. I think we needed to let them cool and then toast them, they were still too hot when we had them this morning. The flavor developed a lot more and they are soooo good. We had originally planned to share one as a before-bed snack but we ended up making another to share because one wasn't enough. Wow. These are the first really good bagels I've eaten on the west coast! :-D

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Yum. I'm definitely going to try this recipe. I'm a novice bread baker, but I'm sure I can manage this recipe. I'd like to find a good egg bagel recipe.

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my bagels weren't so hot. I've got all my notes and photos and a blogpost about it, but it must wait. one thing of note that I want to remember though, is that my kettle of water got all foamy. I put in the baking soda, too. did you have a lot of foam when you were boiling them?

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Um.... no, not too foamy. Once it got boiling good i think I turned it down a little, to medium high from high. Don't know if that made a difference.

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Another interesting canadian bagel recipe:

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I have always thought it was difficult to make bagels, but this recipe made me try it, and it was fun and gave a great tasting result! Thanks.

I did not have any malt-stuff or baking powder, but I used honey and poured half a beer (stout) in the water -- they tasted great! However, I doubled the baking time (baked them until they where 95 deg. celsius in the middle).

Here are the measurements for europeans (note that I did some small changes):

Starter:
12.5g yeast (compressed)
650g wheat
6dl water
3/4 tsp salt

Dough:
6-8g yeast (compressed)
500g wheat
2 tsp salt
1 tbsp honey

And the oven should be set to 260/230 deg. celsius.

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Maybe it's because I'm Australian but I find it odd that some have trouble finding malt, the powder and syrup has been in every supermarket I've been in. Of course I love malt and would never be without the stuff :)

As to the bagels they look really good, I'll have to give them a go. Can someone explain the reason for boiling?

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Bagels are my Wednesday morning chore to bring into the office. It really goes crazy if I am not there or forget to get them. Not being that much of a bread baker really (since I found out I was wheat intolerant 5 years ago), I none-the-less had to take a stab at bagels.

As Floyd says, they are not that at all difficult. NOw all I need is a wheat free real bagel. :-(

A short bagel making video at:

http://superpeel.com/videos.html (At bottom of page)

The dough was a litle on the soft side, but they came out excellent with a nice crunch.

Pizzameister

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You may get on OK with spelt flour - many people who are wheat intolerant including me and my Dad get on fine with it. Although spelt is a form of wheat, the gluten is different and because it hasn't been "modernised" with breeding/genetic modification it is like a different grain.

It is very easy to work with and requires less kneading/proving time than ordinary wheat flour.

The wholemeal makes a lovely light bown, slightly nutty loaf and the "white" is great for everything (it isn't bleached usually so is very pale brown rather than snowy white).

An internet search should bring up some useful websites with info and hopefully some stockists. I have some trouble getting the white spelt flour in the UK.

PS in Germany spelt is called Dinkel and Dinkelbrot is quite a copmmon bakery bread.

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helend,

Thanks for the advice. I have tried spelt and like it, but am not entirely sure if it is OK for me. Seems better than regular wheat, but needs more testing. Also, have tried kamut, which is also an old and unengineered grain. Same with that one. Have to be tested for gluten intolerance, but have been putting off as I generally just go without these days. Would be good to know.

Just bought a bag of sorghum, which has no gluten. Will be baking some this week with that. Problem is the lack of gluten and need to add xanthan gum to make elastic. That I have been avoiding too, since I would like to keep as natural as possible.

A good quality gluten free bagel! - Now that is the holy grail!

Thanks

pmeister

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Sorry to hear about the gluten thing :((

Hope the sorghum flour experiment is successful - and the search for the holy grail!

regards Helend

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Hi

I made them and they are good. An great improvement on other receipes. Mine did not look like the bagels in the photos for which I blame my rounding ability. Also yours are a yellowish color; did you add egg? What tips do you have on the shaping? Also, Two questions; you don't drain them on a rack or towels and did not mention applying a wash (egg white or yolk, etc). Did you do those two things or not?

Thanks for the post and the photos

Baking in Africa

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HI

THanks for responding. In your receipe you did not indicate the temp of the water, is it room temp or hotter? I am wondering why my bagels are flat not round and the water temp might be the culprit. Also, do you glaze them?

Thanks

Baking in Africa

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Hello;

I made them again and they were much better. I heated the water up last time like for pizza dough or other items and I think that did not help. This time just a little warmer than tap water and a much better product!

Baking in Africa

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When you put the bagels in the fridge for the night, do you cover them with anything? I wouldn't want them to dry out or anything.

Thanks,
-Joseph

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Pizzamister....have you tried a bagel recipe from a book "special diet solutions" by Carol Fenster? This was a must for us when my older son was allergic to wheat and other gluten grains including spelt. It's a little more work than regular wheat recipe but if that's all you can eat, it's a pretty good substitute beyond rice cakes... Baking is a little easier w/ eggs. We were gluten and egg and dairy free. Anyway, hope that helps.

Meanwhile, I'm off to the kitchen to try this bagel recipe, maybe with honey.

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"Van",

Do not have that book. Can you share anything from the recipe? Since the weekend is here, and cream cheeses are in the fridge, I can't think of a better project....

Thanks,

Pizzameister

In the interim, I will take a look around online to see if I can find it.

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I think the purpose to boiling is for the crunchy on the outside, chewey on the inside fresh bagels are known for. The same effect of steam when making baguettes? I made some with a higher gluten bread flour and they were almost too chewy. Must try normal bread flour next time. I also cut up some onions and fresh garlic, sprinkled sesame and poppy seeds and made everything bagels. They were delicious. As for letting them rise in the fridge overnight, I think bagels are not meant to rise too much before boiling, hence the reason for the 20min sitting.

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My daughter only likes egg bagel so I did a little search and found this recipe on the net. Don't know how good it is, but will try it tomorrow.

Golden Egg Bagels - pareve

1 1/4 cups water
4 tsp. active dry yeast or 2 tsp. instant yeast
2 eggs, beaten
1 tbsp. oil
1 1/2 tbsp. sugar
1 1/2 tsp. kosher salt
4 1/2 - 5 1/2 cups bread flour - preferably unbleached

Kettle water:
6 quarts of water
1/2 tsp. kosher salt
l tbsp. sugar

Topping:
Sesame or poppy seeds

Egg wash: 2 beaten egg whites

Whisk together water, yeast, eggs, oil, sugar and one cup of flour. Stir in salt and most of remaining flour. Knead 8-10 minutes until dough is stiff and smooth.

Cover and let rest on a board about 15 minutes.

Meanwhile, line one large baking sheet with a kitchen towel and another with baking parchment. Fill a large soup pot or Dutch oven three quarters full with water, sugar and salt. Bring water to a boil. Preheat oven to 425 degrees F.

Deflate dough if it has risen at all. Then divide into 12 sections. Form into 10 inch trips, and then form these into bagel rings on a plain cookie sheet. Let rise 15 to 20 minutes. Bagels should have a 'half proof' - they should appear puffy.

Boil bagels about 1 1/2 minutes each, turning over once. Let dry on towel lined baking sheet then place on parchment lined baking sheet. Leave plain, glaze with beaten egg white, or simply top with sesame or poppy seeds.

Bake until done, about 15-20 minutes, turning bagels once, when almost baked. If you have a baking stone, finish bagels on the stone directly. Bake until done, about 15-20 minutes. Yield: 12 bagels.

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New Yorkers would say that the secret to their bagels is the water--if you want big, fluffy bagels, you need California water; if you want chewy, slightly sour bagels, turn on a NY tap....

As far as actual baking technique, NY bagel bakeries follow the same starter method as used by The Fresh Loaf for rye bread: work in day-old bread. I have not worked out a recipe for this (yet?), but I have gotten closer by using the same recipe as shown here, but extending the fermentation by refrigerating the biga overnight (although I have never tried refrigerating the shaped bagels, so I do not know how the sourness levels compare).

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Please keep posting your progress in achieving a good wheat-free bagel! I love making bagels (and then giving them away), but I am afraid that one day I will break down and eat an entire batch straight out of the oven -- bagels are the one wheat item that will forever tempt me despite the pregnancy-sized bloating just a few bites would inflict on my celiac-hexed body....

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Ha!! Ate a "bagel" this past Wednesday. All is well. Picked these (forget the brand, and they are still at the office) up at the health food store in the freezer case. They are a corn based product, with some tapioca or other starch and guar gum added. Maybe it is not having a bagle at all for close to a year, but I was pleasantly surprised (toasted with cream cheese, of course). I gave it a solid C as a bagel and an A- as a gluten free baked product - good flavor, some chew and a little spring.

As far as removing the gluten from wheat, that sounds intersting. Makes sense, since you can buy wheat gluten. Somehow they remove it. I will take a look at the link later out of interest, but the result (wheat without its gluten) would not be an advantage for baking, as it is the gluten which holds baked goods together and gives them their spring and chew. I would think that wheat sans its gluten would bake like corn or wheat.

While not baking, per say, I will gladly share a very good pancake (probably could be used for waffles or a good muffin base) recipe that I am fine tuning. These are wonderfully tasty - light and airy, have no "odd" ingredients, are not gritty, and are gluten free!!! The recipe includes about 20% rolled oats in the dry mix. I know that there has been some discussion about "gluten in oats" - There is none naturally, but there is some possibility of minute amounts of wheat or other gluten containing grains getting in. For me oats are fine and in this recipe, I think that the rolled oats add some much welcomed moisture retention capacity.

Commment on Rye: According to what I have read, rye has gluten and is a no go for celiacs!

Thanks for the info

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Is it true that Jewish bagels were originally poached to doneness, like
dumplings, and did not see the inside of an oven - or is this fact just an urban myth?

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I tried making this bagel recipe last week. It worked wonderfully, but I wanted to experiment when I did it a second time. So today, I followed the same instructions, only I added whole wheat flour instead of bread flour for the 3 3/4 cup of bread flour that is added to the sponge after letting it rise for two hours. After kneading, I divided the dough in two. One half I left plain, while adding cinnamon, brown sugar, and raisins to the second half. I kept kneading until it was well mixed, then proceeded with the recipe. The plain whole wheat ones were good, but let me just say - I think the others were the best cinnamon raisin and brown sugar bagels I've ever eaten.

Thanks so much for the recipe. I can already tell I'm going to have loads of fun with it!

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This is the third bagel recipe I have tried with varied results.  Two issues:

The bagels stuck mightily to the parchment paper when I put them in the refrigerator (covered) overnight. Is this to be expected?  Should I have greased the parchment paper?  Two bagels stuck so badly that I had to throw them away.

Regardless of the recipe, when it is time to bake I find that the bagels burn on the bottom and fail to brown on the top.  I thought my baking sheet was too dark, so this time I lined with parchment only to find that it stuck (again).  I had some success with flipping them over halfway through the bake time, but again, no predictable results.  The cornmeal also burns, producing a lot of smoke and odor.  Any suggestions as to how to fix this?

 Thank you!

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I had a bagel from a bagel shop in Atlanta that was presented on the menu as "Olive oil and sea salt" - it was one of the tastiest bagels I've ever had, and I've been looking for similar ones ever since. I can't seem to find one anywhere. The bagel had a crisp outside texture, and was chewy inside - although the inside was little more moist and porous than traditional bagels. The olive oil was definitely used in the baking process, not added afterwards - or atleast I assume so because it was evenly distributed.

Anybody??

 

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The recipe turned out great bagels, if a little soft -- I think I should have let them brown a bit more. They are delicious!

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I made bagels for the first time.  Everything turned out except I had some sticking bagels.  I used cornmeal on parchment paper and put on baking stone.  The bagels stuck really bad to the parchment paper?   Why?

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<p>I baked a batch this morning, for the dough I mixed in some finely chopped sundried tomatoes — it gave a nice reddish tinge to the dough since they were a little damp. The bagels rose a little too much and flattened out after boiling, I think I will try this with a preferment refrigerated overnight and do the rest of the process in the morning.</p><p>I brushed the top of the batch with some oil prior to covering, since the plastic I was using stuck pretty severly to the tops (parchment was fine, however.)</p><p>Thanks for the recipe</p>

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This seems like a great recipe, which I'm about to try!  But it's the first time I've tried working with yeast and I would like to ask something.  I bought a small tin of yeast that is in tiny granules and called 'Dried Active Yeast'.  It says on the tin that the yeast needs to be reactivated with water before use.  This recipe calls for 'instant yeast' and I was wondering if this is the same thing?  Should I reactivate the yeast first, or just add the dry granules to the flour and continue with the rest of the instructions?

 

Thanks for any advice you can give!  :) 

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Thanks for the link!  I read through your FAQ and it explains why my sponge has not risen!  I guess I'll throw it away and start afresh.  Thanks again.

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I made a half batch (6) of these bagels today. I substituted some brown sugar for the malt powder and I had to cook them a little slower as my oven won't reach 500 degrees, but they turned out really well! The only thing I would do differently is make larger holes in each bagel, as they closed up a little over night.

 

I was wondering if it would be possible, rather than baking the bagels and storing them, to make up a dozen bagels as described here but then just bake 3-4 each day? How long would the dough stay fresh for in the refrigerator, and what affect would such a long period of retardation have on the baked bagel?

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The first batch I ever made was out of a Better Homes cook book and they turned out great.  The kids loved the entire process. My next 2 batches were door stops and paper weights.  I will try your recipe and pay very close attention to the time & temps.

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> . Adding one tablespoon of baking soda to the pot to

> alkalize the water is suggested to replicate traditional bagel

> shop flavor. I went ahead and did this, though I have no

> idea if it made any difference.

 

The third time I tried this recipe I did an experiment: 10 boiled in plain water and 5 with baking soda. There is a difference: the ones with baking soda came out browner, crisper, and with a slight alkali tang. My family did not like this flavour, so I will probably omit it in the future. But you might want to try both ways for your own trials.

 

I noticed that Hammelman's recipes calls for maple syrup in the water. This would be similar to the malt that RLB calls for in her recipe; that didn't work too well for me either.

 

sPh

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thank you so much for such a great simple, easy to follow recipe, I've just made some today with dried apricot, sultana, raisin, cinamon, mango powder, red bean powder, it was alot of fun, and tasted absolutely delicious, except mine were too soft, next time I'd probably need to boil them a little longer. love bagels! thanks again!

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This morning I baked the bagels I prepared the night before from BBA. A total of just 10 minute of baking time seemed woefully inadequate. It took another ten minutes before they looked even slightly brown.

What experience do others have with the baking time in this recipe?

(I baked them on my sheet pan, which sat on top of a baking stone, in a 500 deg. oven, which I lowered to 450 after the first five monutes.)

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I had a very similar experience with the bagel recipe from BBA.  Maybe it is our ovens?  I guess I'm not giving you any answers but at least the comfront that your not the only who had this issue with this recipe.  Luckily they still tasted good once they did come out of the oven. 

demegrad

http://www.demegrad.blogspot.com

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Hi,

well, I've got two problems with bagel recipe. I've decided to try it during weekend but I want to finish it in the evening (not in the morning) and I don't know how long the bagels can (or must) stay in the refrigerator (and whether it is necessary at all). The second question is whether  I could use whole-wheat flour mixed with normal flour instead od bread flour.

Thanks,

Morya from Slovakia

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  Ive never seen a recipe for bagels that calls for Baking soda in the boiling water... I think youre confusing pretzel making with bagel making.

  PRETZELS are first boiled in a baking soda solution. BAGELS are traditionally boiled in a malt syrup, honey, or sugar (ie, sweet) solution.

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I seem to be having the opposite problem of others in that my bagels turn out soggy on the bottom and I must flip them over to get the bottom to cook well. The source of this problem has been suggested perhaps: I am using an air-filled cookie sheet ? I don't have a baking stone either so perhaps that is it.

I have made this recipe twice. I found that the bagels were a little big for my taste so I made more of them from the recipe, which turned out fine. I also had problems with the bagels sticking in the fridge which would result in their collapsing when I tried to detach them for boiling. I solved this problem by performing emergency surgery on the paper, which I cut around each bagel so I could flip each over and let a combination of gravity and gentle prodding detach each bagel. Preventing this by making a less sticky dough in the first place and maybe some cornmeal would be better of course. Also I agree that I needed more cooking time than 10 minutes. In regard to putting toppings on the bagels, I found putting the toppings in a small dish and putting the boiled bagel topside-down into the dish and moving it around (much like salting a margarita glass) to be effective. So far I have made plain, chocolate chip, cranberry, and salt bagels. The salt bagel is just like a round pretzel, so perhaps the idea of boiling them in something sweet has merit :)

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