The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

100% Sourdough Rye - my second success!

gmask1's picture
gmask1

100% Sourdough Rye - my second success!

I figured that I'd make myself a blog rather than posting back into the forums all the time. No point cluttering up a perfectly good forum with my one-track-minded baking experiences! 

Last weekend I took another shot at the 100% Sourdough Rye recipe kindly passed on to me by a good work colleague. My previous attempt had been a fair to middling success, and I was confident that this would turn out even better than the first. I was pleasantly surprised by how good the loaves turned out, given my total inexperience in making bread. 

Here's how they turned out: 

 

and the interior:

 

What I'm most happy about is that the resulting loaves - apart from tasting great - have my mind working to figure out ways to improve them. The scoring didn't take, so I'll need to think about different ways to work the scoring out. Plus the surface tension is probably not right, so I'll need to work on my folding.

Lastly - for my own benefit as much as anyone else's - this is the recipe I've been using successfully (all credit to OliverN from my work. I've made a couple of small annotations over time). Any suggestions or variations are absolutely appreciated!

Stage 1:

Mix together

4 x cups rye flour.

3 x cups luke warm water

2 x cups starter.

Leave for 16-24 hrs, until the mix has a domed top.

 

Stage 2

Mix into previous mixture

3 teaspoons sea salt

4 x cups rye flour.

Leave for 12 hours.

 

Split mixture into two bread pans and leave for a couple of hours (I never do that though). For rye flour you do not need to kneed it. I just flatten the mixture and roll into a log.

Bake in 180 preheated oven for an hour. 

Comments

ehanner's picture
ehanner

There is quite a lot going on here it seems. I'm surprised you get such a big rise from the rye flour. All of the high percentage rye recipes I have looked at call for maybe an hour of secondary ferment, not any where near the 12 hours you are doing. But, just look at the crumb! And the proof time again would be just 15 minutes but with added yeast in the final mix.

I guess if I was going to offer a suggestion it would be to try cutting back on the 12 hours secondary ferment time. You could try half and see how the rise is in the oven. It looks like your dough is blowing the top off. I wouldn't worry about trying to slash the top. For 100% rye's the traditional method is to "dock" the top. I use a pencil to make holes in the surface of the top about 1/2 inch deep. This gives a place for the steam to vent and not blow up the top cover.

I'm not an expert with 100% rye's but I have tried enough that I know a few of the problems that can arise. Maybe some of the German style bakers will chime in here.

Look forward to hearing how this works.

Eric 

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

Excuse me, Eric, but I wish you would not use a pencil, lead could get lost into your dough.  I find a knitting needle or chop stick works well. 

Mini O

josordoni's picture
josordoni

I think a pencil is fine if you use the other non-pointy end Mini?

It's that bit wider than a knitting needle or chopstick.

Lynne

 

SteveB's picture
SteveB

Mini O, although referred to as "lead", the center of a pencil is actually graphite, a form of carbon. 

SteveB

www.breadcetera.com

JMonkey's picture
JMonkey

Beautiful looking rye loaves. Very impressive -- what a rise!

I'll have to try that. Now that fall is here, I'm eager to start back into rye baking and finally bake the pumpernickel I've long been craving.

siuflower's picture
siuflower

are the breads taste sour with such a long ferment time? 

 

siuflower 

gmask1's picture
gmask1

That's a great question, and I'm not sure that I can answer it... it's funny, everytime I buy sourdough bread locally, I can identify the taste of sourdough (to me, sourdough bread tastes much more complex than the more conventional 'bakery' bread, no offense intended - I love all bread, anyhow and anywhere).

But, I don't know how 'sour' tastes, insofar as bread is concerned! By dictionary definition, sour should be acidic or tangy... the loaves are certainly tangy, moreso than any bread I've ever tasted from a bakery. It's a different tangy though to one of my failed earlier loaves - the tangy taste of the earlier loaf was more identified by the tip of my tongue, and it lingered after finishing the bite that I took. These new loaves are tangy, but more toward the middle and back of my tongue, and the tangy-ness doesn't linger after finishing what I'm eating (the rye flavor does linger though, and this result would be my ideal loaf).

So I apologise, but I hope my observations help to answer your question!

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

And they speak a language of their own.  I think something very important to tell us is how cool you let the stages rest.  What was the temperature?  And are you using a rye starter?  I think your temps are worth noting.

The recipe is very logical, it's a three step process.  The first stage (really a second with 2 c of starter being the first) 1c starter flour to 4 cups rye flour or 1:4  and keeping it soft with all the water. The second stage is doubling the flour 5:4 and firming up the dough.  But the dough needs to sour when this much fresh flour is added, rye needs to sour in order to stretch. 

Eric, I think you should check Hamelman's Bread p 203. 

The large time window is due to the process and good starter.  No commercial yeast was added which speeds things up considerably and shortens proofing time.   The timing was right to put into the oven.  If it overproofed, it would be too late.  So the next Q would follow, how did you know when to bake it?

Mini O

gmask1's picture
gmask1

Hi Mini O - thanks for the comments! I'm learning a bit more each day :)

As far as temperature goes, my house is usually between 60-65F (16-19C), though the heater can raise it to about 68F (20C). The dough and starter both rest at that room temperature.

To the starter, and it is a rye starter that was started and is being fed by the same flour as I use to make the bread (I've only been using the one type of flour right the way through, as it was the first that I found in quantities large enough to make bread!)

Lastly, regarding when I put the proofed loaf in the oven - my friend told me to put it straight in once the loaf is shaped into the pan. The recipe suggests a couple of hours proofing time, and I tend to leave the loaves for about 90 minutes.  I'm not aware of any clues that might help me know when to put the loaves in the oven - put it down to beginner's luck!

Thanks again for your comments!

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

You're welcome. Rye is one of my favorite grains. I can see it is becoming yours too!

Next time score right after you shape your loaf before the 90 minute wait (If and when your room temperature rises, this time may shorten.)

It never hurts to get a feel for the dough by gently touching it often. With time, you can actually x-ray the dough with your finger tips, an acquired skill, that lets you know requardless of temperature how the dough is developing. :)

Mini O

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

This looks like basically a 1-2-3 sourdough formula!

Found myself looking closely at this recipe  (converted it to grams) noting it's success and see that it is also a 1-2-3 type recipe by weight.    The flour in the recipe has been divided into two mixing and rising times, salt added to the second mix/rise and the rye has been reduced just a little because of the tremendous absorbent qualities of the flour. 

I added spices to the starter (made from firm refrigerated starter last night--it started out too runny--realized I didn't have enough flour for a larger loaf--so I added some rolled oats to soak up excess moisture) and this morning I'm in the first "rise."  It stands waiting to "dome."  I will mix in the salt and rest of the flour when it's ready.    I used 200g thick liquid rye starter (not counting the oats), 400g water 300g Rye flour.  Later I will add 250g rye flour and about 50-100 g of soaked & drained Quinoa seeds.

My patio is between 15°c and 17°c  so it is perfect for this rye loaf and now with all this nice cool weather for rye, I head for the tropics, really smart!  I hear there is a bakery nearby....

Mini

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

and ended up adding more water.   Dough stood another hour and not much was going on.  I scooped it out onto parchment and smoothed the top with a spatula and dusted it lightly with flour so I could see it rise.  It just lay there, a whole hour long,  like thick cooked scored oatmeal, grey, bumpy, with no visible signs of life.  So I decided to mix up a cake and bake that in my already hot oven.

After another 50 minutes I gently touched the top of the rye dough,  it felt like there were hollow spaces forming inside.  Yes!  I was worried there for several hours but I was rushing it a bit.  (patience) The dough was smelling sour now but not too mature and when the oven had reached 200°c  I slid it into my hot iron pan to bake 50 minutes at 180°.  It doubled in height.  (smile)

Mini