The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

three strand winston knot: some little problems

keesmees's picture

three strand winston knot: some little problems

tried this one today the first time with a dough I'm familliar with.

evening before:

375 flour; 285 water 7°C; 15 sourdoughstarter. mixed, not kneaded. in the fridge under foil.


next morning:

300 flour; 150 water 7°C; 8 fresh yeast; 12 salt; 10 sugar.

(flour = high protein baguette flour, roomtemperature)

knead 10'; after 45' fold; after 30'fold; after 30' divide and braid.

preliminary report:

1 this dough is too wet

2 the strands were too short

3 my worktop was too small

4 use abundant dusting flour to get the strands better separated

5 try two-strand winston knot first. its probably easier.

but the taste was good




dmsnyder's picture

Wow! That is a beautiful bread.


keesmees's picture

cheers david.

but the exterior was not quite what I expected. the strands are too flat.

I found only two pics with google and this one - from a dutch site  - was the best: 

in a few weeks I'll try again. with a stronger dough





josordoni's picture

Tell you what,  Grtz, I like your shape better!



ehanner's picture

Wow Grtz, that's a very nice looking bread! Where did you find the layout for the braiding?


wadam's picture

Gorgeous!  Though I might try it with an eggy dough like Challah and see how that works.  I've always had better luck getting them to puff up.

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

of THESE comes closer to what you're doing? I think maybe the top one on far right?

But rope and dough don't act the same so quick twisting movements are a must.  I invision a "S" shape....where the curves in the "S" are twisted quickly to make loops and then the ends threaded through... something along those lines. 

Mini O

keesmees's picture

tnx for all compliments.

@wadam, you're probably right. the knot from the trifles site was a brioche dough.


@ mini & ehanner, I used this layout:


the pic is not so good, but in the end you simply put the loose ends under the knot.

so you don't get  a problem when the strands are long enough.



Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

Yes that is easier, Thanks, I think knots look so cool!  You're an inspiration! 

Mini O

Paddyscake's picture

Love the way it looks..I can see where that might be tricky to do with so many strands! I guess this question is for the it just me or does it seem harder to follow a diagram of braiding dough?  I have no problem french braiding my own hair and I can't even see what I'm doing!! ??

Thanks for the diagram Kees

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

Two sets of 3 "ropes" (so a total of "6"ropes are needed) and crossed over in the middle so the braid can begin. I have a tricky time following pictures too but they are bilingual. I just have to study what the heck changes from one picture to the next and change it to a 3-D moving picture in my mind. I can see where to tighten the braid: tighter or closer overlapping of the "ropes" (2) and when doing (4) should tighten the braid. Does that make any sense?

I have noticed when teaching Macrame and Lanyards Art, that everyone sees braiding differently and developed 3 basic methods with 4 strand & multiple braiding (6,8,9...) just to accommodate this phenomenon for camp crafts. The end result looks the same but the way one goes about it is different. I suggested to campers if they had problems with one method, they should try another, "nobody sees the world the same way." Sometimes putting a mirror up to it and looking at the reflection makes sense. (right or left handed) Some braid over some under. The key is the weaving action and bringing the outside edges back into the middle. After tucking the ends under, decide what part of the now braided dough should be the top middle and then hugging the edges gently under to make a nice shape.

I can imagine that just a tight chotic twisted ball of "ropes" that go in and out, over and under could also look very good. ...or an 8 strand vertical braid....ends tucked into the middle top...

Anyone ready for a round pretzel?   

Mini O-Steam


AnnieT's picture

Mini, I'm tired tonight and guess my eyes aren't working too well - and I thought your comment read "just a tight CHAOTIC twisted ball of ropes..." which is what I'm afraid I would end up with! A.

Well, that will teach me to consult the dictionary before spouting off! Seems there isn't such a word as "chotic". Told you I was tired, so sorry to have opened my mouth before putting my brain in gear! A.

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

I also wrote STAND instead of STRAND.  I thought I spelled chaotic. But I ment it. If you start out but can't manage it, heck, why not? coil it all up into a ball and let it rise, you could even make a little man peek out and hands and feet somewhere. I did it once with clay, would be interesting in bread.  I'm pretty tired too.  

Title it ..."The Overwhelmed Baker"

Mini O

"What a world, what a world...."

AnnieT's picture

Good morning, Mini. Because you knew so much about teaching people to make knots I assumed that "chotic" was a technical term - but I should have checked first. Your idea of the loaf with the little baker man's arms and legs poking out might be good for the day of the dead bread, instead of little bones all around the edge? Maybe not, A.

Larry Clark's picture
Larry Clark

I'm very much looking forward to trying this. So much so, that I checked out the Hemmelman book at our local library. It would be big help if you could give me an idea of how long to make each strand.



keesmees's picture


back in town again. sorry for the late response; I had a little vacation in france last weeks.

the recipe's total weight is 1155 gr.

six strands 190 gr each.

make the strands 70 cm at least. a bit longer is no problem, because you fold the redundant dough underneath.

succes kees