Submitted by mikeofaustin on June 18, 2008 - 12:50pm.
Does anyone suggest the original hobart line of kithenaid mixers are worth getting? I know that the new ones absolutely are a peice of plastic garbage. And if anyone currently has the original, can you tell me how much dough it's capable of kneeding?
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A Hobart-era KitchenAid
A Hobart-era KitchenAid would be over 20 years old, if you can find one. And what makes you think they are plastic garbage? KitchenAid mixers are just fine if you get the right one.
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maybe 'garbage' is to strong
maybe 'garbage' is to strong of a word (and could potentially hurt some feelings). What I mean is, well, companies that buy a name brand that has been tried and tested for many years, reduce the manufacturing cost by cutting all kinds of corners, like taking metal gears and making them plastic so if you were to 'exceed' the recommend conditions, you just broke your mixer; remove the metal housing, make it out of plastic, so if it falls over, your housing is broken... etc,etc...
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You know, there's been a lot
You know, there's been a lot of fuss over stripped gears on KAs, but I bet the actual number of blown machines is far smaller that the number of people who when told "knead 4 minutes with a hook on medium" crank the machine up to 5.
Mike
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No stripper here
Load is a factor to consider. I wonder how many mix huge quantities of dough in their KAs which don't have the bowl or HP capacity to handle it. You can burn up any machine if you put enough stress on it.
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Read the manual? Read the web site? Nahhhh!!!!!
I have a two mixers now, a Hobart era K45SS I bought new in about 1987 and an Electrolux DLX. I had a Bosch Universal, but sold that on eBay.
I've heard many, many "my KitchenAid died" stories, and I am not a real fan of current KitchenAids, my feeling is most of the problems are from people who read neither their manuals nor the web page. Nor, I suspect, the information on the box.
KitchenAid currently rates their mixers by what they call "Flour Power" measured as how many cups of white flour the mixers can handle in a batch. This is absurd since there is a lot of difference between cake batter, poolish, bread dough, pizza dough and bagel dough. Professional mixers are rated by pounds and hydration. So, 60% hydration dough has this rating, 50% hydration has that rating. A cup is an imprecise measure, as discussed many times here and elsewhere. Still, it's better than nothing.
Also, KitchenAid says if you use whole grain flour to cut the rating in half. And that you should knead for no more than this long (varies with the mixer), at no more than that speed (may vary with the mixer), and only two batches back to back and then let the mixer cool for 45 minutes to an hour.
These limitations make KA mixers useless in any professional or commercial kitchen for bread making. Even to make rolls for a restaurant. The mixers aren't NSF rated, which is also necessary for professional or commercial usage.
While I think they rate their mixers in nearly useless, uninformative ways, they misrepresent the mixers as being professional or commercial grade, and that the mixers are not very good, the usual story I hear is about someone's KitchenAid mixer dying involves a third or fourth batch of bread back to back, being mixed at too high a speed for too long, all the batches being whole grain, and being considerably too large even if the batch was a white flour bread. In most cases, it isn't the mixer's fault. It's the owner's fault. In those cases where I've heard of it being spontaneous mixer death, KitchenAid has come through with a new mixer. Sometimes even after the warranty expired.
That said, I still think the mixer is not optimum for a serious bread maker. I suggest using alternate techniques to make the bread by hand (such as strestch and fold) or getting a larger mixer that can handle the load as well as back to back batches, such as a Bosch or Electrolux.
Mike
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I'm assuming that after your
I'm assuming that after your first paragraph, you're talking strictly 'newer' models?
also, I read a story where someone called the company and said, "The box say's 'heavy duty'". The companies response was, "That's just a name, and in now way implies that it is 'heavy duty'. So yea, no commercial use.
Also, I wonder if anyone has purposely abused the older units, so see how much 'more' abuse they can take over the newer ones.
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Hobart KAs
The Hobart KAs you can find on eBay and at garage sales typically only have a few dozen hours on them and some even have perfect finish. I guess the 1960s weren't too much different in that respect: most of these must have been bought, used twice, and pushed to the back of the counter.
sPh
I would like to find a reputable service center for the one I bought on eBay though. Interesting thing I learned: the gear lubricant in a KA should be USDA-certified food grade non-toxic grease. I didn't know there was such a thing.
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Hobart era KitchenAid mixers worth getting...
I think so.
I own 2 from the Hobart era - model K5-A and K5-SS (both 5 qt. capacity).
Do *not* purchase unless you are guaranteed that it is in working condition.
Do *not* purchase unless there is an *authorized* KA service center near you in case the unit needs repair or adjustment.
The models I have can mix 4-5 pounds of bread dough *if* the flour in the dough is primarily commercial white all-purpose OR bread flour. If you're making "speciality" breads then reduce the capacity to 4 pounds dough or less. By "speciality" breads, I mean (for example) the following...
...a high % of high gluten flour (protein value greater than 12%), a high percentage of non-commercial-white-wheat flour additives or a bread made of 50% or more whole grain flour.
Hobart era KA models appear at times on eBay. The seller will advertise them as such as sellers are aware that there is still a strong market for Hobart-era KitchenAid mixers.
Please post back to this thread if you have further questions re Hobart made KitchenAid mixers.
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I'm pretty sure that Hobart
I'm pretty sure that Hobart era KA Mixers were all in the 4.5-5 qt range in terms of bowl size. From my experience with a more recent 4.5 qt KA, I'd say that you're looking at a batch size up to about two loaves.
Personally I recommend the Electrolux Assistent (AKA DLX) mixer for breadmaking. It's what I switched to when I began making bread and found that my KA wasn't up to the job. So far I've made up to four loaf batches including whole wheat breads and the DLX hasn't even flinched. My old KA strained and threatened to die kneading a single WW loaf and overflowed making a three loaf batch of Floydm's cinnamon raisin oatmeal bread.
Russ
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ilovebreadblog I also own a
ilovebreadblog
I also own a KA mixer (Heavy Duty) I am kinda satisfied with it but it does have it's limitations.
I have found that when using the maximum flour capacity the machine starts mixing slower.
I seem to remember when using a Hobart N-50 at school or at work you could throw in a pound of bricks and the mixer would never slow down.
I paid like 500€ for my KA, I asked the price for a Hobart N-50 and it would kost 3.400€.
I guess this sez it all...
Key is to know the limits of the KA mixer. I have mine for like a year and never had a single problem.
If I were you, I would get a used Hobart N-50 on eBay.
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I had an older KA
I had an older KA Professional 6, the one with the C dough hook, and gave it to my son for his family. Was never impressed with the C dough hook. The dough use to climb up and you had to keep shutting off the machine, push it back down, start it back up again, shut it off, push the dough down - you get the picture. Purchased a new/refurbished Professional 6 from KA (only 239.00 with a six month warranty) - this one comes with a 575 watt motor and the new dough hook which is shaped like a pigs tail.
Hugh difference! The new style dough hook works so much better than the C hook - the difference is night and day. Made some Vienna bread yesterday, that use to choke the old Pro 6, but this one didn't break a sweat.
If you're interested here is the link:
http://shopkitchenaid.com/product_detail.asp?HDR=outlet&T1=KTA+RKP26M1XLC
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I guess what I mean by old,
I guess what I mean by old, is the older K5-A of the K5SS model. Put it this way. If you can lift your KA without the help of anyone else, you don't have an older model. I 'believe' the pre 1986 machines.
(kind of exagerating, kinda not).
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to mikeofaustin - what are your actual needs?
Rather than perpetuating an endless argument (?discussion) of the merits and demerits of KitchenAid mixers, Hobart or Whirlpool, perhaps you could tell us what your needs are?
> How much bread dough do you want to make at a time? (If you can't answer in terms of weight, let's assume a loaf of bread requires about one pound of dough).
> What kind of bread doughs do you make? As has already been pointed out, a stiff or heavy dough taxes your mixer more and you can't make as much at a time. For example, doughs that use high gluten flour (at 13-14% protein) are much stiffer than ones that use all-purpose or "artisan" bread flour (at 12% protein). Doughs that use a high percent of whole grain flour (let's say 40% or more of the flour is whole grain) are stiffer.
> Do you need to knead batches of dough one after another, as might be more typical of a small bakery or other commerical concern?
> What's your price point for a mixer?
If you can target your needs for us, I think you'd get better responses.
Looking forward to hearing from you - SF
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Needs are the issue
I have had a Hobart KA mixer, new KA mixer and now I have a Pro 6 KA. I am a hobby baker and never tax my mixers. The Pro 6 with the pig-tail dough hook is better than the Hobart KA for bread doughs. However, if i wanted to go even semi-pro I would get a professional mixer.
My son the artisan baker says that when you go pro you get a NEW pro mixer 'cause you need to have it up and ready to work all the time and used ones are downtime waiting to happen.
Paul Kobulnicky
Baking in Ohio
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