A Hobart-era KitchenAid would be over 20 years old, if you can find one.  And what makes you think they are plastic garbage? KitchenAid mixers are just fine if you get the right one. 

I think so.

I own 2 from the Hobart era - model K5-A and K5-SS (both 5 qt. capacity).

Do *not* purchase unless you are guaranteed that it is in working condition.

Do *not* purchase unless there is an *authorized* KA service center near you in case the unit needs repair or adjustment.

The models I have can mix 4-5 pounds of bread dough *if* the flour in the dough is primarily commercial white all-purpose OR bread flour. If you're making "speciality" breads then reduce the capacity to 4 pounds dough or less. By "speciality" breads, I mean (for example) the following...

...a high % of high gluten flour (protein value greater than 12%), a high percentage of non-commercial-white-wheat flour additives or a bread made of 50% or more whole grain flour.

Hobart era KA models appear at times on eBay. The seller will advertise them as such as sellers are aware that there is still a strong market for Hobart-era KitchenAid mixers.

Please post back to this thread if you have further questions re Hobart made KitchenAid mixers.

I'm pretty sure that Hobart era KA Mixers were all in the 4.5-5 qt range in terms of bowl size. From my experience with a more recent 4.5 qt KA, I'd say that you're looking at a batch size up to about two loaves.

Personally I recommend the Electrolux Assistent (AKA DLX) mixer for breadmaking. It's what I switched to when I began making bread and found that my KA wasn't up to the job. So far I've made up to four loaf batches including whole wheat breads and the DLX hasn't even flinched. My old KA strained and threatened to die kneading a single WW loaf and overflowed making a three loaf batch of Floydm's cinnamon raisin oatmeal bread.

Russ

ilovebreadblog

I also own a KA mixer (Heavy Duty) I am kinda satisfied with it but it does have it's limitations.

I have found that when using the maximum flour capacity the machine starts mixing slower.

I seem to remember when using a Hobart N-50 at school or at work you could throw in a pound of bricks and the mixer would never slow down.

I paid like 500€ for my KA, I asked the price for a Hobart N-50 and it would kost 3.400€.

I guess this sez it all...

Key is to know the limits of the KA mixer.  I have mine for like a year and never had a single problem.

If I were you, I would get a used Hobart N-50 on eBay.

I had an older KA Professional 6, the one with the C dough hook, and gave it to my son for his family.  Was never impressed with the C dough hook.  The dough use to climb up and you had to keep shutting off the machine, push it back down, start it back up again, shut it off, push the dough down - you get the picture. Purchased a new/refurbished Professional 6 from KA (only 239.00 with a six month warranty) - this one comes with a 575 watt motor and the new dough hook which is shaped like a pigs tail. 

Hugh difference!  The new style dough hook works so much better than the C hook - the difference is night and day.  Made some Vienna bread yesterday, that use to choke the old Pro 6, but this one didn't break a sweat.

If you're interested here is the link: 

http://shopkitchenaid.com/product_detail.asp?HDR=outlet&T1=KTA+RKP26M1XLC

Rather than perpetuating an endless argument (?discussion) of the merits and demerits of KitchenAid mixers, Hobart or Whirlpool, perhaps you could tell us what your needs are?

> How much bread dough do you want to make at a time? (If you can't answer in terms of weight, let's assume a loaf of bread requires about one pound of dough).

> What kind of bread doughs do you make? As has already been pointed out, a stiff or heavy dough taxes your mixer more and you can't make as much at a time. For example, doughs that use high gluten flour (at 13-14% protein) are much stiffer than ones that use all-purpose or "artisan" bread flour (at 12% protein). Doughs that use a high percent of whole grain flour (let's say 40% or more of the flour is whole grain) are stiffer.

> Do you need to knead batches of dough one after another, as might be more typical of a small bakery or other commerical concern?

> What's your price point for a mixer?

If you can target your needs for us, I think you'd get better responses.

Looking forward to hearing from you - SF

I have had a Hobart KA mixer, new KA mixer and now I have a Pro 6 KA.  I am a hobby baker and never tax my mixers.  The Pro 6 with the pig-tail dough hook is better than the Hobart KA for bread doughs. However, if i wanted to go even semi-pro I would get a professional mixer. 

My son the artisan baker says that when you go pro you get a NEW pro mixer 'cause you need to have it up and ready to work all the time and used ones are downtime waiting to happen.

Paul Kobulnicky

Baking in Ohio

Heat is the enemy of electric motors. If a motor is run under heavy load it will get hot.  If the situation persists, the motor will be damaged.  The destruction of a motor is a cumulative process.  Yesterday's abuse may bring today's failure.  Countermeasures: take care not to cover the air vents on the motor.  Be concious of the motor temp.  Keep in mind that you can rapidly cool the motor by running it no-load for a minute or two.  You may be surprised at the amount of heat heat dumped while running no-load.

Yes, I burned one out and tried to repair it and in the process discovered that KitchenAid went through a period of learning with their Pro mixer line.  I was in a very dour mood over the smokey events at the time but ended up buying another one anyway.  I found that it's proof that a company can learn if it listens to its customers and the number of returns from dyed in the wool breadmakers (and the inevitable sales drop from a bad reputation). The latest and greatest advertises "steel gears" (go ahead google "kitchenaid steel gears" and see what you come up with) on both the 5 and 6 series.  The last but most important item that clenched the dour mood second buy was the change to the spriral dough hook.  Yep! You guessed it, kneading dough sent more of these machines to the junk pile than did whipping egg whites. The spiral dough hook and more powerful electric motor with better cooling fan circulation capability better matched the type of endless torture that kneading dough applies to the machine. 

The carnage that this caused the brand name amongst the baking fraternity nearly wiped their name from consideration by many who "will never forget".  I am now happy enough to have forgotten the rotten thoughts I had during my dour mood period after the first Pro 6 smokeout...

+Wild-Yeast

P.S. Check with me just after the one year warranty period is up...

The new mixer [KitchenAid 6 Qt.] is beginning to stop after 15-20 minutes with 2 lbs of dough.  Letting it cool for 10 minutes or so resets the thermal cutout and it runs - but only for 5 or so minutes.  It also has a loud whine.  

We're thinking about sending it back to the factory as it's still under warranty.  

Wild-Yeast

Even the small-but-mighty Hobart N50 isn't officially rated by Hobart for heavy bread, bagel and pizza doughs. Go figure that one! (ref: https://my.hobartcorp.com/resourcecenter/ProductDocumentation/F-40180.pdf)

Whining, complaining motors are indicative of planetary mixers with direct-drive rheostat-driven electrics. Get a real mixer with a gear box, or an alternate design, like a spiral, Bosch or DLX if you want to lessen the risk of burn outs (AND you still ought to stick to recommended capacities and ratings).

People complain about how things "aren't made like they used to be", and then in the next breath complain about the price when something is (e.g. Hobart N50). Washing machines are another example of this phenomenon. People buy the cheap one, it breaks, they chuck it out and get another. Disposable items for disposable incomes in a disposable society. And yes, the sad fact is it's actually cheaper to do it this way than buy once, buy right - I recently bought a replacement non-stick rice cooker bowl replacement which was more expensive than buying the whole rice cooker new in the shop next door. Out of principle I spent the extra few bucks to get the replacement part rather than the extra resources I didn't need. Crazy but true.

You get what you are willing to pay for with mixers as well as anything else. 

Back in the 1970s there was only a percentage of the population who were willing to pay the extra price of a Hobart made Kitchenaid.  They cost about $250 back then, in comparison to a Sunbeam for about $100.  Sunbeam mixers outsold the KA by approximately 10:1 and only hard core cooks/bakers paid the extra money for the KA.

Now a much higher percentage of the population wants to buy a Whirlpool Kitchenaid.  But they are NOT willing to pay the adjusted for cost of living increased price a Hobart built KA would cost. 

So, Whirlpool cashed in on the desire for the legendary KA by building what amounts to a cheap look alike.  Whirlpool KA sales are probably quadruple what the Hobart KA sales figures were.  Profits per unit produced have to be a lot more also.

Now people are expressing the desire for the robust and durable Hobart N50, but most do not want to pay the price for the excellent quality.  But let somebody buy out Hobart and dummy down the N50 so it sells for $800 or less; and the stampede would be on.

Meanwhile the small percentage of the population who prefer to work with quality equipment are willing to happily pay the higher price.  They are glad they don't have to worry about breakage, down times, and unsatisfactory service.  They utilize the common spending strategy of the very rich.  Buy the best once, and you never have to replace it again.

I should say that I would not be on this forum now if it was not for KA's cost saving moves.  I was on the KA forum for years and loved it, but KA laid off the customer service reps who were moderating the forum and closed and sealed the forum itself.  KA also sent even more jobs overseas to cut costs.  Only the assembly of the mixers is actually done in the U.S.  they aren't made in the U.S.

When the KA forum closed, I was at a crossroads and happened onto this forum.  I am now in the process of transferring my KA history threads from Kitchenaid Conversations, from my computer onto my blog; so that this information will once again be available to those who want it.

The fascinating thing is that KA is now the Sunbeam - and sunbeam is even cheaper still!

...but through it all, Hobart is still Hobart.

Commercial and industrial premises, where down-time=money, are still the market for robust, 24/7 machines such as a Hobart. Having your cheap knock-off 30-quart mixer break after three months does not good business sense make. Better to have a machine that will keep going and going in between its scheduled services.

[EDIT: I sound a little like a Hobart salesman - but I have no connection with them!]

A couple of thoughts:

• KA reputation is now a "Sunbeam" story
• Only one European machine holds up to job of kneading the dough
• Dough hook kneading action is inefficient and power consuming
• No company is addressing this market area [niche?]
• Implies strong opportunity  for addressed innovation

All current machines use fairly dated technology and are far from being intelligent when it comes to addressing the bread making application. The old adage that "we just design them, and no, we don't bake with them" seems to apply here.

It's time to translate those back-of-the-envelope ideas into a formal engineering prototype proposal...,

Wild-Yeast 

I just recognized this thread and lo and behold I had a post almost 3 years ago. Wow.  But even mine is dated. I sold my KA Pro 600 soon after I bought it (it was insubstantial and not worthy of the "Pro designation) and got a Bosch. It's fine. But I still wish I had the KA my wife and I bought her mother about 40 years ago. It was a workhorse but was tossed out by the same two people who bought it for her when she died (scheesch!)

I know a lot of people who own KA mixers and love them. However, they don't make bread with them. It's a good all purpose mixer and half the price of a good bread mixer. Quality and quantity are usually proportional with appliances. if you are paying half the quantity of money of a good bread mixer you are going to get half the quality.

In England I use a Kenwood Chef and I had one since 1971 - I know how long because my husband bought it for me for Christmas and I was expected my third baby.  It was the first time I had not made a Christmas Cake by hand mixing.  It reminded me of when I first had an electric sewing machine instead of my great-grandmother's hand cranked one - but that's another story!

The Kenwood Chef broke down after nearly 40 years of hard work kneading bread dough and making cakes and using the attachments.  I bought a new one and it is not a patch on the old one.  My Good Housekeeping Christmas Cake recipe (used since the sixties) actually stopped the motor.

I still use the Kenwood for breads but have gone on to a Panasonic Breadmaking Machine, which is OK, and recently and most successfully made bread with Jim Laheys No Knead recipes.  In fact I have just ordered a large cast iron casserole from ebay which is due any day now.  After I had ordered it I read further and found out that you can only use it up to 180 degrees centigrade.  Since that cannot be the cast iron I guess it must be the knob so Iwill get my husband to ferret around in his sheds and find me a nice brass or iron knob.

I have an Older but in great shape KitchenAid K5-A (hobart era) Stand Mixer and I got it at a great Price. Im wondering What its worth? I bought it with the intention of selling it. I just have know idea what to ask for it. I have 3 attachments and and original instruction book and Accessories book that came with it new. Im sure this unit is over 20 years old, but its in great shape works like the day it as new and i have to beleive its worth something. Can anyone help? please let me know thank you. Boeingn747@aol.com

I used to have a KA (ok i still have it, it's in the cellar, and i bring it up to use for the pasta roller attachment), but now i use a Cuisinart SM-70 7-qt stand mixer. My brother was generous enough to get it for me for my birthday a few years ago. Where my KA used to strain and sometimes start to smell like smoke (yes I turned it off immediately) the cuisinart is solid! I mix 7 lbs of pizza dough in it (yes a soft, supple dough but still that's a large amount!) and its fine. Every other dough I mix it has been fine as well. I really love the thing. It's got a nice smooth speed change that slowly increases/decreases as you turn the dial instead of just jumping to the next speed. The top flips up and out of the way. I totally recommend it.

I have owned the KA model K5-SS for years and now my son moved into a house that had a KA model K5-A left behind.  It is in perfect condition.  There was also a grain mill attachment with it.  I love to make bread but I have always done my kneeding by hand.  I would love to grind my own wheat berries for WW bread with the grain mill, but I have read too many comments about people burning up their machines with it.  Which one of these machines would be better for grinding flour without burning up?  I know that I can't grind more than 2 cups at a time and to let it cool off.  Both models are Hobart machines.  TheK5-A is a HZ80  and the K5-SS is a HZ60.  (whatever that means) Thank you for your help!

Brenda from Minneapolis