The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

Take 2: Hamelman Pain Rustique - even more alfanso style

alfanso's picture
alfanso

Take 2: Hamelman Pain Rustique - even more alfanso style

I guess this V3.0, or V2.1, or V1.2.  Who's knows, and more importantly who cares?

Plans and results laid out the other day, I thought I could do better.

Changes from last time:

  • Shorten BF from 70 min to 45 w/folds at 25 and 45 minutes.  Because...
  • Place BF vessel into retard for about 6-8 hours.
  • Divide and placed on couche, back into overnight retard.
  • Exhibit even greater gentle care in handling the dough both onto and off the couche.
  • Scored the slightly stiffer dough with my regular lame other than the other day's ceramic blade. 

Otherwise, all other aspects of the process were the same.

Results:

  • Better and more consistent shaping
  • Darker crust
  • Much less raw flour on surface
  • Some amount of oven spring, these are certainly a little more robust than prior
  • Noticeable bloom, although still relatively slight.

Unsure of whether the flavor profile was enhanced due to extended BF and retard.  But I think that this is the method I'll use when these come up on my "what shall I bake next" wheel.

Formula is in the link the top.

The "cover" photo is just prior to bake, what they look like on my new wide oven peel (used for full length baguettes).

Today, vs. the other day.  Richer crust coloration.

 

Today, vs. the other day.  Due to lack of any surface tension, these are delicate and more difficult to score.

 

950g x 8 dinner / hamburger rolls

 

 

Comments

Benito's picture
Benito

Very nice improvements to the rolls Alan.  I also much prefer not having as much raw flour on the crust.

Did the changes you made affect the crumb?

Benny

alfanso's picture
alfanso

had a moderately tight crumb.  Since it did grow quite a bit in the oven, it wasn't for lack of trying to open up.  

kendalm's picture
kendalm

they look a bit like tofu pieces prior to bake, even more so on take 1.  looking at the surface, really great crust.  we are seeing some shape variety ! - wonder whats next (i know it wont be a dastardly boule) 

alfanso's picture
alfanso

My neighbor liked the first bake better because the rolls were more "crispy".  Sometimes it's hard to get real feedback on what people really think about what they get from my oven, so it's refreshing to hear back some real critique.

It's interesting to maintain a consistent shape with a dough so "fragile" that has a significantly lower hydration than most ciabatte.  Maybe next time they'll be cut into loaves rather than rolls.

Danni3ll3's picture
Danni3ll3

And I come back to see you are baking buns? Oh right, it’s 2020 and the world has gone to hell in a hand basket. I shouldn’t be surprised. Fantastic job on those rolls! 

alfanso's picture
alfanso

I've made the pain rustique from the Weekend Bakery site once or twice with great and decidedly NOT rustique looking results (hint - baguettes).  And these were something that I'd had my eye on for a while.  There's really nothing special about them, They're fine for a dinner or hamburger roll and toast up delightfully for breakfast toast, but better served in my book by a levain based roll or a ciabatta roll.  But it gave me the opportunity to get the monkey off my back, the post it tab in the book to be removed and the chance to fulfill a life-long dream akin to going to Disneyland 

While you were taking a mini-Rip Van Winkle, a small group of dedicated baguette geeks have been diligently working our ovens off.  The Community Bake has garnered over 1000 comments and still has legs, although getting a bit wobbly at this juncture.  The group learning experience has been extraordinary.  I'd say that if anyone not named alfanso had the gumption and dedication, a serious book on baguette baking could legitimately be written.  I really mean that.  Dan even got Jeffrey Hamelman to poke his nose into the CB once or twice.

In any regard, welcome back.  When folks disappear for a while - think Cedar Mountain, some wonder if they are just taking a long-needed break from TFL insanity or whether something more nefarious or insidious (another life-long dream of using both of those words together has now been fulfilled) is at play.

alan 

Cedarmountain's picture
Cedarmountain

Hi Alan, it's good to be missed, I think...good to be remembered in passing thoughts because one has left a somewhat positive residue, better than being remembered for nefarious and insidious behaviour!   I have been somewhat occupied with many things covid-19 for the past months, trying to work through the new world order and way of doing things.  As with seeing Danni back on the blogs, I am glad to see your user name too (and a new picture!)...I assume that means you are well, staying healthy?  And given the turmoil and changes that have descended on the world I suppose it shouldn't surprise me to come back expecting to see some of your perfect, delicious looking baguettes and find you baking buns!  Oh well, I admire your initiative in stepping out of the familiar and as you say, getting this monkey off your back...very nice bake Alan, and  I think better for you than going to Disneyland right now, just saying!  Stay safe, stay well.


David

 

 

alfanso's picture
alfanso

just a young'un.  

The state's governing idiots allowed a place like Disney World to open its doors to help usher in what will likely be a 2nd wave.  But hey, life is cheap.  Easy come easy go.  As far as health, yes we are healthy and I try to keep up with whatever exercise schedule I can without risking going to my gym with a bunch of heavy breathers, sneezers and coughers.  

In fact I was an early recipient of covid-19 back in March.  Careful as were were, when the number comes up, the jig is up.  Fortunately I had perhaps the least serious symptoms outside of being asymptomatic.  Just after it was determined that loss of smell and taste were an associated symptom - boom, I got it.  Like within very few days after publication.  I went the first  day of the symptoms for a nasal swab test, the results of which came back something like 14 days later as positive!  I was over the symptoms in three days.  Nothing since.

Cedarmountain's picture
Cedarmountain

Wow, you've been through it and come out the other side relatively unscathed, very happy for you Alan!  There are so many variations and endings, possilbe outcomes for this miserable viral infection.  Our situation on this side of the border is not as severe as in the US but the numbers are creeping upward suggesting the bad habits, going back to the old way of doing summer, are not serving us well going into the fall/winter.  Seems a second wave is already under way here too.  We are fortunate to be in a less divisive and tumultous situation than you folks; the public health authorities and governments have been taking a very Canadian approach to managing the pandemic prefering moral suasion and education to mandates and emergency measures laws.  Lots of "please do this" and "sorry for the inconvenience" but there are limits to how effective this is as evidenced by local outbreaks linked to massive beach/house parties, lack of social distancing in local bars, strip clubs etc. Nothing perhaps on the scale of Disney opening in the middle of a global pandemic, during a massive surge in your state's infection numbers...I guess you nailed it when you say life is cheap, or more accurately, life is second to making a dollar!  We are very happy the border is closed and hope you folks can work through all the polarized, highly political, partisan, racial stuff to stabilize the pandemic situation.  Again, I am glad you're ok, glad you're not suffering any long term issues from your covid adventure and cheered to see you posting now and again.  Thanks Alan, be safe, be well!

Danni3ll3's picture
Danni3ll3

You came through it relatively unscathed. Too many are left with lingering symptoms. 

alfanso's picture
alfanso

As of today I think so, although I initially had a very minor lingering raspy throat for a month or two.  We are still learning more each week and that will continue for the next few years, if not decades.  Will something more injurious rear its ugly head one day down the road?  The book is still out on that one.  

It is funny though that when the State Health Department finally got around to calling me, I hung up the phone (nobody really hangs up a phone anymore!), and didn't know what to feel emotionally.  It was like I couldn't pin a feeling on it.  Of course by the time they got done moseying around to finally call me, I had "healed" and was well past our CDC guidelines for recovery.  But there was still that period where I just kinda sat there not understanding how I should feel.  

Back then in late March the headcount here was still so low while considering our marvelously epic incompetent response since we first found out, here let me check...oh yeah...Jan. 20th - same day as S. Korea.

Thanks, alan

Benito's picture
Benito

Wow, I’m so glad that you are fine now Alan after having had COVID-19 in March.  At this point more than 4 months after being infected, it is very unlikely that you would develop new symptoms related to COVID-19 that you didn’t already have.  Some of the late onset symptoms are related to the hypercoagulability state that results from the cytokine storm of COVID-19 that can persist a bit beyond when one is still infectious.  This has caused some people to have strokes after discharge from the ICU.  But these folks were sick enough to require ICU admission.  Those with few or mild symptoms, I have not seen any data suggesting that they develop new symptoms after resolution of the infection.  You should be fine Alan.

As you know of course, a good number of people lose their immunity in short course after having had COVID-19, so I certainly would assume that you could get it again.  Stay safe and take precaution especially considering the incidence of COVID-19 in Florida at the moment.

alfanso's picture
alfanso

I have a convalescent plasma donation scheduled for this morning with my regular blood donation center. Here, one can only sign up right now with proof of antibodies, which this same org. ID'ed when I previously donated in June.  As part of the procedure they'll again test for existing antibodies, so I'll know whether there are any still floating around in me, although my suspicion is that the virus mutates enough to potentially render existing antibodies ineffective.  (Hey, I was in IT, not a medical profession!)

An oddity is that my wife, also tested on the same day as me in March tested negative, which makes no sense since we, um, cohabitate.  Unless she had a false negative and was completely asymptomatic.

Yeah, being in a State that is itself in a state of denial it is not a joy.  Our county has a mask requirement under county executive order for anyone in a shared indoor space, which is a start, but people south of the international border just don't seem to be serious or are stupidly defiant to the detriment of all.

 

Benito's picture
Benito

Unfortunately there are more false negatives to the nasopharyngeal swab than ideal.  Part of it is clinician related as to whether the swab was done properly.  The area needing to be swabbed is quite far back and if done correctly will be fairly painful/uncomfortable.  Another issue is whether or not the swab was done too early in the course of infection prior to sufficient virus being present, this is partially the sensitivity of the test.

I still feel that we don’t know enough about the antibody testing to know which actually provide immunity or not.  Your point is well taken that the virus, like most, gradually or rapidly mutate over time so depending on the particular antibody and the region of the virus that it attaches to, you may have long lasting immunity to it (if it is a region of the virus that doesn’t mutate, highly conserved, and the antibodies are produced by you long term) or short lived immunity if it is against a region of the virus that mutates frequently or you don’t make the antibody long term.

alfanso's picture
alfanso

Adminstered by a hazmat suit person through the window of our car.  And yes, it was really uncomfortable, as we were warned up front.

If my wife and I are living together, traveling together in car and on flights, walking the streets, dining in public places and riding the subways in NYC at the end of Feb. together (hint, hint) and dining together at home, there is only the vaguest possibility that we wouldn't be on a similar timeline.   A few weeks ago she went back for a retest when she had this nagging cough/cold.  This time it only took the State, lemme check my notes here, 2 weeks to report back that she was negative.  Now, this doesn't mean that she didn't have the antibodies from being asymptomatic from an earlier exposure, because the test is for the presence of the virus, not the antibodies.

A troubling part, besides all of the previously discussed, is that if every person were to be tested today, that doesn't mean that today's test would still be valid tomorrow or the next week. Testing does not preclude future exposure of course.  So we would have to all be tested continuously.  That is of course unless we can universally reach an Ro < 1.  Good luck with that!