The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

Corn sugar = dextrose = glucose(/syrup) = glucose monohydrate

idaveindy's picture
idaveindy

Corn sugar = dextrose = glucose(/syrup) = glucose monohydrate

I haven't seen this topic in a search, so I thought I'd throw it out.

If anyone has a recipe that calls for "corn sugar", you can get it at beer-making supply stores. It is called "corn sugar" or "dextrose." I've seen it in 1 pound, 3 pound, and 50 pound bags.

 It is usually hydrated.  That does not mean it is wet, it still looks and feels dry. But it means there is one water molecule attached to each glucose molecule (technical name "glucose monohydrate").  And because of that, it dissolves very quickly, even in cold water.

There is a thing called "anhydrous glucose" which is glucose molecules only, no H2O attached. But it is expensive, and usually not needed for home baking/brewing operations.

If you need "glucose syrup" for a recipe, you can make it out of corn sugar (aka dextrose, aka glucose monohydrate) just by mixing the dextrose in a little water (more dextrose than water, by volume) and heating.  I do not know the ratio of dextrose to water in order to make "standard" glucose syrup. 

You may not want to use "corn syrup" as a direct replacement for "glucose syrup" because of the added salt, the added vanilla flavor, and the fact that American grocery-store corn syrup (eg. Karo) has a lot of naturally occuring fructose and other longer chains of "maltodextrins".

Maltodextrins are one-dimensional chains of "N" number of glucose molecules, all hooked up in various lengths of chains, and they would need to be broken down, by some enzyme,  before they  can behave as singular and separate glucose molecules, whereas in pure  glucose syrup, and dry dextrose, the glucose molecules are already individual molecules.

Maltodextrin dissolves very slowly in cool water, faster in warm water, and tends to clump (almost like corn starch) in hot water.

Bottom line: American corn syrup (Karo, etc.) is NOT glucose syrup.  Probably not close enough for direct substitution.

Hence, maltodextrins can add _thickening_ properties, but not as much sweetness (or fermentability) as singular glucose molecules.

If I recall correctly, the "dextrose equivalent" of Karo light corn syrup is 40%, whereas corn sugar, dextrose, and glucose syrup would be 100%.

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"Corn starch" (called "corn flour" in the UK) is a TWO-dimensional "fabric" (not the best word, but close enough) of glucose molecules, whereas maltodextrins are a ONE-dimensional "string" or chain, and glucose is ZERO-dimensional, already totally individualized/broken down.  Corn starch is a better thickener than maltodextrin, but an even poorer/slower sweetener, and ferment feeder than maltodextrins and dextrose, because there are more bonds (inter molecule "links") to break down via enzyme activity.

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"Malt syrup", sometimes called golden syrup, consists of maltose molecules and water. Maltose molecules consist of exactly two glucose molecules.  There is another name, used in UK/AUS that escapes me at the moment.

Malt Syrup can be found in most Korean grocery stores in the U.S., labeled RICE SYRUP, or Brown Rice Syrup, it is light brown in color. If your local Asian grocery store caters to Koreans, they will have this.

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"Malt sugar", can be found in beer brewing supply stores, labeled "Dry Malt Extract" abbreviated DME.  This is a fine powder. Usually light brown. Very sweet. Tastes like malt, as in malted milk balls, or malted milk. Absorbs moisture very quickly from the atmosphere, so keep it in tightly sealed container.

For us sourdough bakers, our yeast can eat glucose and maltose.

Hence, if you want to quick-boost your starter or levain, you could theoretically add some dextrose and/or malt sugar/DME.  And I have done that. Though I make no guarantees, as that could also quick-feed any foreign or contaminating bacteria. Try at your own risk.

I have also added dextrose and malt sugar/DME (on different occasions, not both together) directly  to my final dough. That seems to reduce ferment/rise time. I could taste the DME in the final bread. Again, no guarantees, try it at your own risk.

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disclaimer: I am not a chemist, nor a brewer, nor a long time sourdough baker. So I may have over-simplified, or been inexact in the above.   I invite those who know better to please offer corrections.

BrianShaw's picture
BrianShaw

Thanks!

BrianShaw's picture
BrianShaw

I’m experimenting, once again, with candy making and find the diversity of recipes for the same product to be both fascinating and a bit confusing... especially on this topic. Substitution seems to require the kind of i you posted plus a good dose of experimentation. Most “consumer” recipes specify corn syrup or Karo by name. Most “professional “ recipes specify glucose syrup. I’m guessing them to be substitutable directly.

When I get really confused, however, are “pro” recipes that call for both glucose syrup and invert syrup. Isn’t glucose considered “inverted” already?  Using both isn’t a problem except for understanding why. 

Also, I used DME for bread and pizza dough quite often. If DME is hydrated isn’t that basically the same as maltose syrup... or should I head over to a local Chinese/Korean market?

BrianShaw's picture
BrianShaw

“Most “professional “ recipes specify glucose syrup. I’m guessing them to be substitutable directly.”

 

I meant glucose syrup be used in place of Karo, not vice versa. 

idaveindy's picture
idaveindy

>Most “consumer” recipes specify corn syrup or Karo by name. Most “professional “ recipes specify glucose syrup. I’m guessing them to be substitutable directly.

>I meant glucose syrup be used in place of Karo, not vice versa. 

I suppose the definitive answer needs to come from a pro baker. But  I'll give my "weekend duffer" answer: For at least some cases:  no.

And I say that because... 1) Karo is 40% DE (Dextrose equivalent), I asked in an email. (Going by memory from their reply.)

2) glucose syrup is 100% DE.

DE is a ratio indicating how long the chains of glucose molecules are.  100% means all the glucose molecules are single individuals, not linked up.  The presence of chains, and the longer the chains, the lower the DE number.

It has to do with "reducible sugars" but I'm still unclear on that term too.  But, it does mean there are more "reducible sugars" in glucose syrup than Karo.  

Glucose syrup is not only much sweeter than Karo, it is more "active" with all the free glucose molecules available for "work".   Karo having the glucose molecules bound up in chains, ie, maltodextrins, you can't taste the sweet glucose.

For reference, Look up on wikipedia:  glucose, maltodextrins, dextrose, dextrose equivalent, maltose, sucrose.

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"Invert syrup" has a specific meaning,  It means a syrup of table sugar (sucrose) and water, that has been heated to the point where the sucrose molecules break apart into separate fructose and glucose molecules.  1 sucrose molecule = 1 fructose molecule + 1 glucose molecule.  A little bit of ascorbic acid, vitamin C, helps speed the process.   

Invert syrup is sweeter than the plain sucrose syrup that it started out as.

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Hydrated DME versus Korean brown rice (maltose) syrup:  I dunno.  if you compare the two, please lemme know.

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This post just started out as a hint how to find corn sugar, if your grocery store does not have it.  And I got carried away, as usual.

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Also, in sweet/confection making, sometimes rolling the sweet in corn sugar, as opposed to confectioner's sugar helps. Just my experience in some few things.

suave's picture
suave

Invert sugar/syrup is 50% glucose and 50% fructose. 

Re: DME as malt syrup.  Sure, you can use it - as long as you are ok with the color and taste it imparts the bread. DME sold in brewery supply stores is made by enzymatic conversion of grain, does not get much treatment, and has pinkish color and characteristic "malt" taste.  Korean syrup is typically highly refined and perfectly clear and colorless, with no odor, and no taste other than sweet.  There is a "brown" variety, but clear is by far more common.  You may not find it in a Chinese/international store - this is a strictly Korean thing, but it's sold on Amazon, albeit at 3-5 times the price.

idaveindy's picture
idaveindy

>Korean syrup is typically highly refined and perfectly clear and colorless, with no odor, and no taste other than sweet.  There is a "brown" variety, but clear is by far more common.

Yes, there was more clear syrup on their shelf.

From reading the English fine print on the  labels...  Their clear syrup is "oligosaccharide" something.  Brown is "Rice syrup" in big letters and "maltose" (or was it "malt"?) in parenthesis.

To me, the brown (rice) syup tastes malty.  I never bought any clear syrup there.

See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_rice_syrup

In the clear syrup, Oligosaccharides, in this context, are maltodextrin chains of 3 to 10 glucose molecules, so it is at least somewhat similar to corn syrup.  But I doubt the Korean clear syrup has vanilla or salt added like Karo.

 

BrianShaw's picture
BrianShaw

i know we’ve strayed from the original intent but I’m appreciative for the education. 

I made an 80% DME syrup. Very thick and very malty. Used Munton Plain Amber and the result is like a malty peanut butter. Not anything like a highly refined syrup where there is sweetness but little flavor. 

In confection invert and Karo are used for crystallization control for chocolate fudge and caramel. I’ll do that experiment next.  

In breadmaking I like both the fermentation boost and flavor of DME added to most rustic breads. But not white or egg breads. 

BrianShaw's picture
BrianShaw

ill be going to a Korean market later today. Will try to get some of these syrups. If the clear-type is functionally similar to Karo but avoids the additives that would be the perfect solution for me. If it’s functionally similar to a regular invert syrup... that’s great too. Then it’s a cost vs convenience consideration since invert and golden syrup are avtoeasy to make. 

idaveindy's picture
idaveindy

Brian, next time you're at the brewer's supply, pick up some corn sugar/dextrose, and play with that, too.

What do you store your DME in so that it doesn't absorb moisture from the air and become rock hard solid?

I bought 3 lb of DME in a thick poly bag.  I took some out and put it in a plain ol' generic double seal zipper seal quart storage bag. It absorbed moisture through the bag, or else the zipper was not sealed all the way.  

I Did a good job of double twist-tieing the orginal heavy poly bag, and that quantity is still okay. but what would be a smaller sealable solution that would be easy for more frequent access?

BrianShaw's picture
BrianShaw

ordered corn sugar on Amazon last night. Should be delivered today. 

 

Didn't expect this, but on the way home from Korean market drove right by the brewing supply. Didn’t stop in because when I mentioned it to my wife she suggested I brew beer again. I got rid of all hewing gear years ago so would have to re-buy everything. Will wait until retirement for that!

 

made invert syrup. Didn’t take much effort. Tomorrow will experiment with glucose syrup.

 

then... fudge, caramels, etc. 

 

thanks for the help!  Sorry if the thread piracy was obnoxious in any way. 

BrianShaw's picture
BrianShaw

I store DME in glass bottles with lids... former spaghetti sauce bottles. 

idaveindy's picture
idaveindy

>store DME in glass bottles with lids... former spaghetti sauce bottles. 

Thanks.

>Sorry if the thread piracy was obnoxious in any way. 

Looked on topic to me.  'Sides, I thread-jack, er,... "go off on a tangent" all the time.   

GLad to be of help or inspiration.   Watch out for diabetes.  Dextrose has a glycemic index of 100. Maltose has a GI of 110. Sucrose (table sugar) is "only" 60!