The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

Multigrain 36 hr cold ferment

trailrunner's picture
trailrunner

Multigrain 36 hr cold ferment

This is based on Danni's Peasant Bread...thank you Danni !  I milled my spelt, rye and kamut and ground the flax seed. I sifted out the goodies  from the flours. I have never done this before but decided to give it a try. I used two different starters that I have had going for a while. Not sure what they are but one was fed only AYW and the other was fed only durum...but that was before and they were now going be on a " water and goodies" feed :). They loved loved loved it. Tripled in 2 hrs. Boom !  I did an autolyse with just the flour and water for about 2 hrs. Folded in the levain and salt. Bulk fermented for a couple hours with only two s and f's as I went to play with my grandson. Came back and the dough had doubled . Yikes. Quickly made 3 rough boules and put it in the fridge. My new procedure as of my last bake is to let it ferment at least 36 hrs. Amazing how well it does. Will look forward to seeing the crumb as last time not only did I get great oven spring, and this time too, but I had amazing open crumb.  Baked at 500 then 475 in my granite roasters. 

crumb shots...lovely tender a little sour and beautifully open

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Comments

Floydm's picture
Floydm

Nice looking bread!

That was a weird bug. It looks to me like maybe previously you uploaded an image file of challah that had the same filename as this one. 

trailrunner's picture
trailrunner

Thank you ! If there is a weird bug around I'll get it LOL !   This used to happen in the past but not lately. THANK YOU for fixing it. c

Danni3ll3's picture
Danni3ll3

How does it not overproof? I notice a clear difference in oven spring if I let it go more than 10 hours and my fridge is cold (38F). Mind you, with 12 loaves in it, I am sure it takes a lot longer for the loaves to cool down than if I only had 3 in there, but still...36 hours?!?

Beautiful loaves and great crumb by the way! Glad I was able to inspire you. 😊

trailrunner's picture
trailrunner

I worried about that when I saw that you had really lowered your cold time but my last bake my oven was supposed to be repaired and the guys didn't come till the next day ! uh oh....the bread had already been in for 18 or so hrs. I said well I'll just wait and see since I had no choice. So it was pretty late on the next day before I baked. The bread was wonderful ! Moist moist moist and stays amazingly fresh SO much longer. So this bake I intentionally made no other changes. Same amount of levain etc as you posted with this formula. If you check Perfect Sourdough on Facebook you will see tons of folks do lengthy retards with no loss of oven spring. 

The added fermentation time makes a huge difference in the crumb texture and also the flavor oh and digestibility is even better. I will be doing all my breads this way from now on. The bread truly is the same size in the banneton after 36 -48 hrs as it was at my usual 16-18 hrs. Only positive changes . 

Give it a try. I don't know what the temp is in the fridge. It's on coldest that's all I know. I do believe that adding 12 loaves at once would definitely change the situation as I am only adding 3. You might fast cool them somehow....placing some of them say 1/2 of them in another fridge or in a cooler or since you are in Canada in your garage or cellar etc ? I would try that. I wouldn't have tried this believe  me if it hadn't been for the repair guys :)  c

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

I have let a SJSD cold retard in bulk for 36 hours, but not formed loaves. My fridge is about 40ºF. I'd expect the bread to mostly get more sour. If retarded even longer, I would fear proteolysis. What changes to you experience with 12 versus 36 hours? Any surprises?

David

trailrunner's picture
trailrunner

I don’t usually ever have 12 hrs. Has mostly been 16-18 for all these years. I did 48 on the bake before this one... it was a standard 1-2-3 bake. This bake was 36 hrs and followed Danni’s Peasant Bread percentages. The bulk was only a couple hours in the oven with the light on but it easily doubled. My levains are crazy active these days. 

Both bakes as I mentioned to Danni were very very moist tender crumb and nicely open. This one was actually a little more sour at 36 hrs than the last was at 48 but that might be due to the contents not the time. 

No proteolysis at all. Beautiful even crumb and dough texture is lovely when I scored it. I don’t ever do a bulk retard anymore as I can’t seem to ever get the rise again when I shape and leave at room temp. My bulk retards used to FILL the bucket no matter how cold the fridge and then they were essentially out of gas so no further oomph for the shaped rise. 

I feel like I’m really on to something and will keep exploring. c

pul's picture
pul

Gorgeous loaves inside and out.

You certainly got something going on with the long fermentation. I get over-proofed dough in the fridge for long fermentation periods because it is not cold enough.

 

 

trailrunner's picture
trailrunner

I never would have tried it if fate hadn't intervened with the " no show" repairmen !   So happy with the outcome. I am going to try reducing the levain and see what happens with that. We don't like too much sour so if I make my levain with only a YW levain then it will be no sour at all. I only have to be careful as my YW is as active as regular yeast so it really zooms along. Will post more but it will be a while as I made these 3 big 900g loaves.

Your bake the other day was beautiful...I'm sorry I didn't get a chance to comment. Hope you post more soon. c

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

shaped loaves in the fridge if They were in there 12 hours with 10% pre-fermented flour.  I eventually just stopped doing shaped loaves for retards and do a bulk retard instead.  The first thing I found out when shaped loaves over proofed in the fridge is that I could reshape them and they would be just fine.  This isn't too hard to understand because that is exactly what happens with a bulk retard where the bulk is just a bigger shaped loaf!  If you are using good bread flour and not much whole grains in the mix, you can actually do a bulk retard then then do a shaped retard in the fridge and then re shape that and it it will proof just fine on the counter!

A bran levain will make your breads that have whole grains in them, loftier for sure and the wee beasties love bran.  It has 20% starch in it but it is also where all the great nutrients and minerals are that they just love!  A 100% whole grain bread will have 11% to 13% bran in it and just perfect for a levain preferment but even a 25% or 50% whole grain bread will have and quarter to half the flour requited as bran for a levain and the wee neasties will thrive on that too.

By getting he bran wettest the longest and having it attacked by the acid on the levain for as long as possible, the chances of it cutting the gluten stands are reduced r=dramatically and your breads will be loftier as a result.  If you build the bran levain as usual, then stir it down and retard it for 24 hours in the fridge it will be even less likely to cut gluten and result in even a loftier loaf that tastes even better!  Just take it out of the fridge, stir it down again and when it rises 25% on the counter it is ready to mix with the autolyse.

Your bread came out beautimous for sure and has to taste great.  You got the 3 B's and the OSM as well!  - a perfect score of 6 -  Nice:-) 

This was the thinking and theory that went into the bran levain process.

trailrunner's picture
trailrunner

Like I mentioned to David I don't do bulk retard at all anymore. My shaped loaves never got back their lovely growth after they went crazy in the bulk retard state. Funny how what works for one doesn't for another. I don't get over-proofing at all with the retarded shaped loaves. Ah well....I don't have a proper sifter just used a very fine Chinese skimmer LOL !  I am sure I could get out more " stuff" for the beasties if I got a finer sifter from Breadtopia. I am happy with what it did for my levain that's for sure ! Glad I tried it and that you and danni showed the way. Happy Baking in 2019

isand66's picture
isand66

As you know I prefer to gulf ferment and have done 36 hours many times so it doesn't surprise me that it worked for you with the shaped loaves.

Happy New Year Caroline!🎉🎉

trailrunner's picture
trailrunner

Happy New Year to you as well and hope the job search is fruitful! 

I know you always do bulk and I used to but then it stopped working for me. Only because the dough went crazy during bulk... tripled or quadrupled! For what ever reason it’s more controlled during shaped retard. Fun adventures keeps us all baking!

funny story.. my husband took out what he thought was potatoe soup today to reheat in microwave... hm.. top blew off container thank goodness... he said this looks weird... yep.. one of my best starters!!!! I grabbed it and added cold water. Tonight after straining out the flour dumplings and feeding it all is well!!! Amazing resilience of starters

Danni3ll3's picture
Danni3ll3

a sourdough container! 

trailrunner's picture
trailrunner

I should get a local potter to make me a couple of those !  I can't believe how the starter has come back !  All I can think is that the weak succumbed and what survived now have no competition. It is bubbly and huge growth. Maybe all starters should have a periodic " microwave incident" to clear out unwanted beasties LOL !  

Happy Baking Danni 

isand66's picture
isand66

How big is the container?  I bet you could sell a bunch of these on this site alone if you wanted a little side business.

Danni3ll3's picture
Danni3ll3

with the lid on and holds about a cup I am guessing. It is quite heavy so it would be pretty expensive to ship! I am sure that local Potters could duplicate this easily. The lid has a flange inside to hold it in place. 

isand66's picture
isand66

That's pretty funny...I wouldn't be laughing too much though if my wife did that to my starter....glad it didn't suffer any harm though!  They do seem to be pretty resilient.

Have a great weekend.

Ian