The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

When Jeffrey met Ken

alfanso's picture
alfanso

When Jeffrey met Ken

An old friend, Field Blend #2.  But with a new twist.  I recently returned to Mr. Hamelman's all AP 125% hydration levain (from my all rye version of it) and had a hankering to combine this with Mr. Forkish's FB#2 formula.  A Hamelkish or Forkelman Frankenstein.

Aside from using the all AP levain, I dropped the overall hydration down from 78% to a more Hamelman-like top-of-range of about 73%.  All other percentages and flour mixes were adhered to, including the pre-fermented flour percentage.  Due to the addition of the levain at "autolyse" time, I shortened the bulk rise by that same half hour as the autolyse.  Then my standard bulk retard and ...  

A very recent change to my pre-shaping and final shaping is a work-in-progress.  Trying to be ever more gentle, I'm still working on getting a consistent shaping.  Not complaining, you understand, just explaining a thing or two.

 

375g x 4 baguettes / long batards

And why do I call these long batards as well?  I'm so glad you asked.  Last year I was made aware of a page from Msr. Calvel's book which portrays differing bread shapes, weights, sizes and scores.  And so I changed my tune and adapted to both.

And as long as open crumb was mentioned, here are slices of the two breads I've made using this softer, gentler approach to shaping.

The two on the left are from a deli rye and the two on the right are from this FrankenBread (FB#2).  Both are at 73% hydration.

 

alan

Comments

Ru007's picture
Ru007

Hey Alan! 

These baguettes look amazing!

Hmmm...I think "Forkelman" rolls off the tongue a little easier than "Hamelkish" LOL!!

Hope you're well!! 

Ru

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

Forkermaned - just sayin.....:-)  but '[both and' sounds really inclusive and tolerant!

Ru007's picture
Ru007

I actually laughed out loud at that comment :) But I must admit, if these were real things and I had to choose, I'd probably also choose to be Hamelkished!

alfanso's picture
alfanso

And a hearty welcome back.  Here's hoping that it was just a hiatus and you're now going to be an active participant again.  We've had a couple of exceptional bakers join us in the past year, producing fabulous breads.  So the bar has been raised - unless it's a limbo bar, which means that it's been lowered!

' "Forkelman" rolls off the tongue a little easier".  Especially when one wants to state that it is in that style - as in Forkelmanish vs. Hamelkishish.  So you're right!

alan

Ru007's picture
Ru007

I'm really looking forward to getting know everyone! 

But yes, you'll be seeing me around all the time now. 

Ru

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

Too fat for baggies and too thin for a batard.  I suppose they could be called Thin Bats.  Fat Baggies just sounds better like the famous Capo 'Tonno Grasso' Tony De Feyo whose turf was The Plaza in KCMO.

With the hydration being lower, I would expect the crumb to suffer some if it is big holes you were after.  Still it has to taste grans and they sure look Don Baggs 'normal' on the outside.  Very ni9ce and 

happy baking 

alfanso's picture
alfanso

You could have had a job in the KC outfit slipping files and hacksaw blades into some "gift" batards destined for the goodfellas who had a stint in the pokey.   I'll give Lucy a pass since she was probably juiced from a week-end long bender to celebrate her BD.

I'm not actually all that interested in big holes.   Like mopeds and hula hoops, it's fun for a while.  I outgrew that phase.  However the Hamelman breads, especially the AP dominant breads like the Vermont SD, achieve an open crumb on a pretty regular basis.  Even at hydrations that don't breach the 70% mark. 

thanks, alan

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

I make Boulots most of the time when the loaves aren't tinned or round:-)  Fat Tony was a card.  In the winter he wore a trench coat to cover his piece and sizable pasta belly and covered his head in a 40's fedora but it was the 70's when no one else wore a hat - ever.   His sister worked with my wife and they were having a company Christmas party in a private room in the basement of the Plaza 3.  Tony came clunking down the stairs dressed just like that and asked his sister - Is everything all right sis? She said Damn it Tony, this is a Christmas party!  He pointed at me and said - Anything goes wrong here and I'm blaming you.  I said, No worries, I got it Tony, see ya later.  She then pointed at me and said .....You can stop it too!   Then up the stairs he clunked.  It paid to grow up with these guys sometimes.  Everybody loved the steak soup at the Plaza 3.

That crumb is killer no matter what you call it.

alfanso's picture
alfanso

have a gander at these two dapper gents.  What is under the camelhair or in their pocket is anyone's guess.

My immediate progenitors.

PS It looks like a piece of your past has seen its last meal served - Plaza III closed on March 10th

 
dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

and we both cried.  Even though my Steak Soup was better I couldn't beat the Christmas atmosphere of the Plaza - nothing on earth is as good for the soul as the Plaza at Christmas.  Plus Topsy's Pop Corn is there and my brother still sends me a tin of 3 different corns every Christmas so I never forget.  It is worth the trip to go to the Plaza on Thanksgiving Day just to see them light the Plaza lights once in your life!  What a wonderful place to grow up and prosper somewhere else:-)

 

isand66's picture
isand66

So how was the taste compared to the straight versions?

alfanso's picture
alfanso

so it's hard to quantify.  Definitely has a "wheaty" aspect to it, although there is more rye than wheat in the mix.  And as I love toast, it makes for a fine breakfast.

thanks, alan

Danni3ll3's picture
Danni3ll3

Just gorgeous! I love the colour you get on those fat baggies! Must taste awesome!

alfanso's picture
alfanso

is a combo of a few things, I think.  A few things that seems to tone down in short order.  Fresh out of the oven, against a black background, and under a yellow incandescent light seem to help that look.  I can't take all of the credit, although I'll try ;-) .

thanks, alan

Elsie_iu's picture
Elsie_iu

And you get a larger portion per slice so you can allow yourself to eat more in one setting... 

The shiny and blistering crust steals my heart every time! You're so cruel to me! There's no fine bakery baking nice baguettes near me and obviously I can't bake a proper baguette myself as well (at least not now).

That being said, I'd love to read more of your post so keep them coming!

alfanso's picture
alfanso

in my desire to make baguettes was that there is a higher percentage of my beloved crust to crumb.  I love the crust.  

The other factor was that I decided to just dedicate bake after bake after bake to figuring out how to make baguettes, doing just about nothing else for at least a year or more.  

So when I mention with some regularity that just about anyone can do it, it just takes practice and some dedication, I really do mean that.  I'll be looking forward to your first attempts to be posted.  And just know that they will never, ever look as bad as my earliest attempts!

thanks, alan

leslieruf's picture
leslieruf

I love how you just keep ‘em comin’ they are beautiful, Fat baggies, Hamelkish or what ever... 

Leslie

alfanso's picture
alfanso

on bread shapes.  It is only due the very very nasty dabrownman insisting that these are fat baggies.  I'll accept the "Don Baggs" moniker gladly though, it's kinda fun.

There's an Abel Sierra bread or two clogging up my box of wanna-do breads, so there should be more a-comin'.  

thanks and kia-ora, alan

leslieruf's picture
leslieruf

I was surprised at the difference between baked and unbaked, normally I think its about 15%?

Great photo - while I haven’t walked the track ☹️ on our recent trip down south, we did drive the Te Anau Milford road, and that was pretty amazing!  We didn’t go out on the boat as we had visited once before with a cruise ship. incredible spot. the Milford track must be quite a trip, not sure if I will get to do that.

thank you and happy baking Alan

Ka Kite ano 

Leslie

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

sucks like ....bird droppings or gradoo from some unknown hidden place.  I thought you liked Lucy?  She even hung your photo up in her pantry not long ago.  Jeeze!

alfanso's picture
alfanso

eyelashes and snout and I'd drop my wife like a hot potato - if it weren't for those 4 stumpy legs.  I just can't get past that one...

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

tomb walls.  It takes her forever to get her face ready every day for viewing by mere mortals.  Her eyes are a 4.500 year old classic

Portus's picture
Portus

Comparing unbaked to baked weights shown in the extract from Msr Clavel's book, the evaporation factor (?) is quite significant at 27%-33%.  This is a lot more than my experience with boules and batards, which is more like 15%-18%. 

If, on average, hydration is similar at 66%-75%, is the reason that the scoring for baguettes, etc., promotes higher levels of evaporation?  I suppose the alternative could be that my breads are the problem!

alfanso's picture
alfanso

Boy, I haven't done this in a few years now.  I just weighed the one remaining bread and it comes in at 275g.  It may have shed an additional few grams since it emerged from the oven yesterday morning, so let's say that it came out of the oven at ~280g.  I always try to vent the breads in the oven for a few minutes in order to have them shed some residual moisture (in this case 3 minutes) before taking them out.  If I take the 375g as a starting point and end up at 280g, it looks as though there was an evaporation in the 25% range.  Which is in the ballpark outlined by M. Calvel.

As these were at ~73% overall hydration, I really would expect a lower hydration bread to lose less weight, since it has less liquid to begin with - think about the difference in pre and post bake weight of an 85% hydration ciabatta, for example.  The difference is significant.

Aside from any venting, the types of flours used as well as the temperature baked could also be influential.  As far as the scoring, I'll suppose that it provides a few advantages.  The obvious controlled bloom of the bread during the oven spring phase.  Also there is an attractiveness to the pattern that can't be denied.  Additionally, a bread as long as a baguette is with relation to its width will have to have scores that go from tip to toe.  Some bakers use a single score down the entire length of the dough, so there are a variety of patterns that could be brought into play as well.

alan

Filomatic's picture
Filomatic

Great bake, as always.  I'd pay extra to see the crumb.  It's fun to tinker!

alfanso's picture
alfanso

they made it to the posting.

thanks, alan

Filomatic's picture
Filomatic

Irresistible!

Anne-Marie B's picture
Anne-Marie B

Eye candy! And I am sure it tastes just as good.

alfanso's picture
alfanso

but with a little more character to the taste from the whole grains.  Truth be told (but why start now?) I am actually one of the oddballs on TFL that prefer a less wheaty taste.  Give me a deli rye, straight white flour P au L, or semolina anyday over these.  But variety is fun and there are few dozen to rummage through in my recipe box.

thanks, alan

PS Metung harbor area looks idyllic.  Too remote for a NYC bred boy, but lovely nonetheless.