The Fresh Loaf

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first try with Bread machine - need help with dough rising questions

RODDY's picture
RODDY

first try with Bread machine - need help with dough rising questions

I have a used Black & Decker All In One Pro Breadmaker

I used the dough maker program

it took about 2 hours & was rising nicely when with about 8 minutes to go the paddle started up & again and it fell.

Is this normal?

I took the dough out, separated it into 2 halves and put them in baking pans

The dough has been rising now for about 1 hour & 35-40 mins

I was expecting it to rise above the top edge before I put them in the oven but it has not.

Here are some pics of how it looks now

Any thoughts?

Lechem's picture
Lechem (not verified)

I suspect the deflating is like knocking back the dough before shaping for the final proof. If you chose a full programme it would have then risen again and baked when ready. Just a guess and better check the manual for dough cycle. 

I think your pans are far too big for the amount of dough and the wrong shape for a nicely risen loaf. You want enough dough to fill 60% of the loaf pan and preferably taller and narrower. 

RODDY's picture
RODDY

I have checked the manual a few times but it is not very clear.

my friend's breadmaker (a different make) does not start mixing again with only 8 mins to go in the dough cycle...

The oblong is the standard Pyrex bread pan, I know the squarish one is not narrow enough but it was all I had.

I have now put the pans in the oven so will see what happens...

Lechem's picture
Lechem (not verified)

But towards the end of a full cycle the paddle does move a bit to deflate the dough for the final rise before baking. I'm assuming in a dough only cycle it does this so you can take it out to shape into loaf pans etc. 

I would definitely invest in more traditional shaped loaf pans and fill to 60% and allow to rise till it just crests the top. If the loaf pan isn't filled enough and is too wide then it'll just spread. 

Perhaps also find videos on YouTube for techniques in shaping dough. 

See how it turns out. Best of luck. 

albert01's picture
albert01

I found a couple used bread making machines and this too is my first time using one. I haven't really made, to any extent, home made bread in the past.

I found each bread machine brands may have different instructions when to add ingredients. such as dry, flour, water, etc.

The bread maker I'm currently using is a West Bend 41088. I've made one loaf with it and at first I did have problems with  paddles falling off and some of the dough spilling over the top of the bread pot.

What I did was start over by unplugging it letting it sit over 10 seconds to reset it's settings. Added some more water, entered new setting of 2 lb loaf, whole wheat and dark crust.

After adding more water it began to stir and kneed the dough normally. It rose really high in the dough pot with two paddles. Something like 4 to 6 inches, above the pot.

After 3 hours and 50 mins it was done, but the bread had fallen some. It came out to be a fairly healthy loaf but the loaf had fallen a little bit not a whole lot. Perhaps this was due to adding more than enough water?

I find for a healthy loaf you may need to experiment  with the amount of water is added (dry ingredients to water ratio). Also the amount of yeast added is important. Water temperature also is a factor for the yeast to rise properly. For this loaf I didn't pay attention to water temperature as I didn't have a thermometer. Water temp. was about the same temp as from the tap perhaps a little higher as I allowed the fluid to sit a while at room temperature.

Different bread makers often use different methods to add ingredients. e.g. the West Bend 410 basiclly you add fluids, then dry ingredients then yeast. Nuts, seeds, fruits, etc. can be added later during a knead cycle if needed.

Instructions for the West Bend 410 series

1. First add  all liquid ingredients first, including butter, margarine 2. all dry ingredients (except yeast), putting salt in one corner of pan to keep away from yeast 3. level off dry ingredients and make a slight well in center and add yeast

Turn it on and your set. No need to add additional ingredients, only need after ~10 mins to check the dough for consistency to add either water or more flour.

Machine produces an audible alert to add other ingredients during it's knead cycle.

Notes when making changes to the consistency of the dough by adding flour or water, must be done during a knead cycle.

* This bread maker also has dough maker settings which has the following cycles.

* Dough making cycles - Mix, Rest, Knead, Rise(1) & Stir down(1)

Bread baking cycles - Mix, Rest, Knead, Rise(1), Stir Down(1), Rise(2), Stir Down(2), Rise(3), Bake

Mix - mix ingredients for about 6 mins. knead bars intermittently start and stop.
Rest - After initial mixing period the dough is allowed to rest about 10 mins before kneading begins.

Knead - Total Knead time varies depending on the bread selection range is between 23 and 30 mins.

----------------------------

Mix = mix ingredients for about 6 mins. knead bars intermittently start and stop.
Rest - After initial mixing period the dough is allowed to rest about 10 mins before kneading begins.

Knead = Total knead time varies depending on the bread selection, range is between 23 to 30 mins.


Rise (1) = After dough is kneaded it's allowed to rise for a certain period of time

Stir-Down (1) = After dough has risen, it's  stirred down by the knead bars to remove excess carbon dioxide gas created by the yeast.

(If using the dough setting its cycle is complete after the first stir down (1) cycle) ready for hand shaping, rising and baking in your own oven.)

Rise (2) = Dough is allowed to rise again, at a shorter time period.

Stir-Down (2) = After a shorter rise time the dough is stirred down again to remove excess gas and also the to shape the dough for it's final rise. Ensures bread has good texture.

Rise (3) = Dough goes into it's final rise to acheive its maximum height.

Bake = Bread is baked for a specific time depending on the crust color selection.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

RODDY's picture
RODDY

IT DIDN'T RISE IN THE OVEN BUT WILL TRY IT ANYWAY WHEN COOL

THE ONE PAN IS A TRADITIONAL LOAF PAN EXACTLY LIKE MY FRIEND USES & HER BREAD TURNS OUT PERFECTLY BAKED AND SHAPED - I WILL GET ANOTHER ONE LIKE THE NARROW ONE ONCE I GET THE QUIRKS WORKED OUT

 

RODDY's picture
RODDY

THANKS FOR THE REPLIES LECHEM

Lechem's picture
Lechem (not verified)

I'd have to see the recipe and dough cycle you're using to advise further. 

How much has it fermented when the dough is ready from the machine? etc. 

I'm sure some tweaks here and there to iron things out. In the meantime watch shaping videos. In fact watch bread made my hand from beginning to end. Just to get a good idea of what you're supposed to be doing and looking out for.