The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

Barley malt syrup and non diastatic malt powder

katyajini's picture
katyajini

Barley malt syrup and non diastatic malt powder

I am  getting interested in trying malt flavors in my baking.  Barley malt syrup and non diastatic malt powder are ingredients are often ingredients recommended for the flavor.  Can anyone help me please with how these taste, kind of? And usually one package is quite big so what else,other than bread, or what kind of breads can one use them in?

 

Thank you so much!

kendalm's picture
kendalm

As a former mad malt scientist i can tell you that the syrup can be used rather liberally and will bring a nice bagel sort of profile to your bread after all malt is none of the ingredients that make bagels taste they way they do. As for the diastatic you've probably read that it should be used very conservatively and that is no joke - its used more to enhance the crust and should be used in pinch portions (for home baking quantities). If you are really interested in malts what's more fun is to visit a home bee supplier and try their usual huge array of different malts. Powder form is my preference and for types I prefer wheat malt this for whatever reason is sort of hard to com by but it has wonderful creamy profile as opposed to barely malt which seems to be more of a bitey flavor. Just be aware of which variety has enzymes because it can destroy a loaf in no time flat !

katyajini's picture
katyajini

Thank you mad malt scientist :) I am very new to malt and will try to get to know wheat malt...however I was speaking of non diastatic malt which I believe does not have all that enzymatic activity of diastatic malt but is used for flavor...

kendalm's picture
kendalm

Regarding the diastatic but just checking.  Yes malt is fun to add to dough - once you get to a certain point you notice a color change as well - generally I don't add it these days thanks to the flour I generally use but of I had a more bland,flour I would consider spending more time at brew supploer as lazy loader mentions they have all sorts of malts and they are usually accustomed to bakers crashing their premises, after all don't they call beer liquid bread ? 

Lazy Loafer's picture
Lazy Loafer

I get different malts from the shop where my hubby buys his beer and wine supplies. I've got a nice crystal malt and a really beautiful dark chocolate malt which has cocoa and coffee flavours. I grind them to powder in my hand mill. If you have a beer making shop close by, go in and ask to taste some of the different roasts (or at least smell them, but they will usually give you a couple of grains to taste). The shop might also have a mill and will crack or grind the malt for you. They will likely have rye and wheat malts as well as different barley malts too.

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

And you can use the non-diastatic like brown sugar only one needs to play with the hydration a little bit and consider the flour aspect.  Count as non-glutenous flour weight for bread or baked goods as it acts more like flour than sugar.   Syrups can be used like any sweet syrup.  

more can be found under:  Roasted Barley Flour

katyajini's picture
katyajini

MIni Oven can I roast barley flour in a skillet carefully just like roasting spices? I have plenty of barley flour.  And then do you use roasted barley flour as a flavoring (ie in tsp/Tbs amounts) or as a flour (ie 20%, 30% etc) amounts?  Thanks!

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

or toasted in a fry pan.  Watch them carefully and stir constantly to prevent burning.  Or bake flour alongside  bread in a heated oven.    

Malted flour is made from sprouted barley that has already converted much of the starch into sugar for the growing plant.  Ground into flour it contains a high sugar content and many active enzymes if ground and dried in low heat.  Taste your barley flour for sweetness.  Chances are it is just milled barley and not sprouted.  Roasting will not make it sweeter per se, but it can be used to add flavour albeit subtle.  Count it as part of the total flour.  Use roasted for Tangzhong or flour roux too!  It will still thicken water and form a gel.  (5% of the total flour heated with that weight x 5 of water)

Experiment and get back to us so we can learn more too.  :)  

Mini

katyajini's picture
katyajini

Mini Oven, I am experimenting with roasting....and certainly will share.  It will take a little time.  My mind is a thousand miles ahead of the time frame my body is in, I know you know what I mean.  I am going to get to this..it sounds so interesting and tasty.  Thanks for the tips.

katyajini's picture
katyajini

Thanks so much friends.  I did not know there are so many flavors of malts...but there is very popular brewery close by I will ask...thank you Mini Oven about how to use NDM and RBF.   

IceDemeter's picture
IceDemeter

malts is that there are so many different types and flavours to choose from!

I got the idea from dabrownman about making my own --- although I "cheated" and picked up a massive bag of diastatic (white) rye malt from my local brew store (for all of $3), and then started playing with dry-roasting it to different temps to get different colours and flavours. http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/27954/making-red-rye-malt

I really enjoy the red (also often called crystal) flavour, which is subtly sweet with just a hint of spiciness to me, but really loved taking it past there to chocolate (and it really does have the aroma and flavour of a dark chocolate) and even to espresso (think of dark chocolate coated dark roasted espresso beans...yeah.  yum.).  I have stuck with the rye malts as a personal preference (and since they work so well with the 100% rye breads that I love), but doing the same experimenting with toasting diastatic barley or wheat malts will let you control the flavour that you want to add to your breads.

Oh - and I've taken to tossing in a bit in to muffins and cakes, too, and I wouldn't be surprised to find myself throwing in some to my next batch of stew or soup, either (cuz - I'm just like that ;) )

katyajini's picture
katyajini

IceDemeter,  I didn't know that there was such a world of malt of flavors out there! Thank you so much for explaining what those colors mean in terms of flavor.  I have a lot to explore little by little. And I love soups and stews, so there is that too...

katyajini's picture
katyajini

IceDemeter, yet again, that is great thread of information!  Its a little overwhelming to start there because I don't even know what the product I am producing should smell/look/taste like.  I have to get some reputable stuff first then tinker away!  Thank you.

 

Awkward question....when I go to brewery for malt...what should I say?  

May I buy some malt? non-diastatic malt?

And what would they give me? Some sprouted wheat/rye/barley berries? Or the dried berries? ?

And they are going to grind it for me?  Or I come home and grind it in my blender?

Thanks

 

IceDemeter's picture
IceDemeter

it's a perfectly reasonable one!

If you want to experiment with the full range of uses of the malt, then you should be asking for diastatic or base malt.  They should have that for barley, wheat, and rye at least.  The most common is barley, so that might be where you want to start.  The base or diastatic malt is whole grain berries that have been sprouted and dried at a specific temperature to be considered "malt" --- but haven't exceeded the temperature that would render the enzymes inoperable.

If you absolutely won't be using the diastatic malt, then start looking for a "crystal" or "caramel" malt, since those are the lowest roasting temps that have gone beyond usable enzymes, and give you the scope to be able to dry roast / toast some yourself to get different flavours.

Most of the brew shops that I've been in sell the malt as whole grains, or you can arrange for them to grind them for you.  Whole malted grains last better, and I find it easier to roast them to different levels, so I bought the whole grains and grind them at home.  A blender or a coffee grinder will work admirably for that (just make sure that you sift it after to make sure you don't get any super-hard kernels still in there).

Here's the malts from the local brew store that I use:

http://grapestoglass.com/product-category/beer-ingredients/malt/

Here are a couple of charts about malt types that you might find useful:

http://hogtownbrewers.org/brewschooldocs/malt-chart.pdf

http://www.onebeer.net/grainchart.html

The flavour notes are for beer, but that's really just under-cooked bread, so apply to baking as well ;) 

I have had some great conversations with the staff at the brew store, since it's actually pretty common to have the cross interest between beer and bread.  If you tell them what you want the malt for, then you are likely to get some great recommendations about their local stock.  I usually start the conversation with "Hi - I'm looking for some malts for bread baking.  What kinds do you stock, and do you have any recommendations?"

They all tease me here for my dedication to the less-common rye malt, but it just is the flavour that I like.  Wheat malts and barley malts (and buckwheat and all other grain malts) are made the same way and will have similar flavour profiles, but all with their own unique "base" flavour.  If you know that you love the taste of wheat over barley, then start with wheat malt, or vice versa...

As for what roast gives what flavour - well, I started with a dry non-stick pan full over medium heat, and just kept stirring them, and sniffing the aroma.  When I hit a point that smelled good to me, then I'd take some out and set them aside with a note as to how long I'd toasted them.  I kept doing that until I hit the darkest level that I liked the scent of, and then I stopped.  I ground them all, and then put a small bit (like - 1/4 tsp) in to an ounce of boiling water, to get the full aroma, and then tasted it when it cooled.  I also added a bit to some plain yogurt to get the flavour there.  I made some notes as to what I liked, had the timing notes, and since then have mostly stuck with 4 levels (what I call "red", "chocolate", "coffee", and "chocolate espresso").

Hope this helps!

Best,

Laurie

katyajini's picture
katyajini

My goodness, I am so happy with what you wrote up for me! I am actually beginning to understand what malt is all about.

I was reading about malts of different colors and flavors but the process of making them was always left out and I just couldn't get what I was dealing with.  Your explanation makes all this clear.

Your personal experimentation of roasting and appreciating the flavor developed is just about perfect. Intuitively for me putting the roasted malt powder in hot water and in yogurt is the easiest way to approximate the flavor in a food.  Short of baking a whole loaf of bread or an entire dish.

If you don't mind I will follow your protocol exactly in my kitchen and discover this new ingredient(s) for myself.  This weekend I will try to get some base malt, wheat/barley/rye, whatever I can find. And I will even know what to say!  Its going to be lot of fun. Thank you so much for your guidance, your complete teaching.

Those charts are so helpful.  

Thank you again.