The Fresh Loaf

A Community of Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts.

Westphalian Pumpernickel

Ricko's picture
Ricko

Westphalian Pumpernickel

In Stan Ginsberg's new book, "The Rye Baker", a recipe appears for this bread. I'd like to try this bread to be able to say I did, and to see if it's a bread that I like. Unfortunately, it seems many folks who've made this bread in the past don't have good things to say about it, and describe it as a brick, cement, horrible, etc. Now if this were truly the case, I would think it would have fallen from favor of being included in bread recipe books long ago. I'm thinking there may be a steep learning curve to making this bread. So I'll ask those of you who have made it successfully for your tips in making it. Is this a bread you make on a regular schedule, or was it just a one time attempt to see if it could be done? Was the taste worth the effort? I suppose the final grade would be if it could be cut with a bread knife, or does one have to still resort to a jackhammer?! I look forward to hearing your comments and tips before adding a heap of frustration to my bread making life!

tptak's picture
tptak

Why don't you ask Stan himself?

https://www.thefreshloaf.com/user/elagins

 

EDIT: also found this, where Stan also gives advice: http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/49936/westphalian-pumpernickel

Ricko's picture
Ricko

I'm not asking if folks have made Stan's recipe, but a similar version of this bread. I will try Stan's recipe only because that is the recipe I have. I'm sure there have been recipes for this bread prior to Stan printing his book that folks have tried. I'm curious to know whether this bread is considered a very difficult bread to make with a satisfactory outcome? It seems that containing the steam within the loaf while it is baking is an important element in keeping the crumb soft. 

MichaelLily's picture
MichaelLily

I've made a similar pumpernickel (a real pumpernickel), although I added a small amount of leaven. It didn't come out perfect, although it came out close enough to gauge. i cooked mine in a steam bath. it was a very interesting bread. Worth doing. Amazing what flavors such a process reveals. You can taste the molasses that isn't there. It's very interesting.

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

is heavy and will cut more like a stiff fruit cake than a typical loaf of wheat bread.   

"I suppose the final grade would be if it could be cut with a bread knife."

I wouldn't.  Use a sharp thin blade and slice thin.   Spreading cold butter on a slice is a joy and it will not tear the crumb if that gives you any idea.  I regularly bake these types of heavy loaves and we lovingly refer to them as bricks.  They are blocks of caramelised rye grain full of flavour. Slice before freezing and wait until the loaf is several days old to freeze when the moisture in the loaf has balanced itself out.  Wrap tightly with lightly oiled wrap until then and yes, do eat part of it before deciding to freeze some for later.  If kept tightly wrapped and cool, you may find no need to freeze as it usually keeps a very long time.  I would vacuum pack in sections and just keep in the refrigerator.

When baking, use wet or water dipped tools and fingers.  It's the best way to prevent sticking to the dough and make for easy clean up.  Wash rye dough off right away with cold water or cover completely to soak.  Dried dough is like concrete.    

I guess the best way is to just jump into full rye loaves and make your own decisions.  If going for the long bake do wrap it up tightly to trap in the steam forever.  :)

Mini

 

Ricko's picture
Ricko

Thank you Michael and Mini for your comments on this bread. Michael, I would enjoy hearing more about your steam bath method. You said that it didn't come out perfect, did you ever resolve the problems of the imperfection? Did you continue to work with your recipe enough to reach full satisfaction with this bread?

Mini, I knew that if you came to my aid here, that I'd gain some valuable insight from you, as always. Any baking tips you can offer? I plan on using the shorter Pullman pan with lid. Do you feel that a good wrapping of foil around the pan once the lid was in place would aid in locking in the moisture while baking? The lid does fit tight, but I'm sure there is enough space to cause moisture escape. I can't help in thinking that loss moisture results in the "cement" effect of the loaf.

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

have thought about just placing a piece of baking parchment inside and overlap the partially risen loaf, and flipping the whole Pullman upside down to bake.  The steam would be trapped inside and the parchment would only let enough hot air escape to prevent the dough from pushing out.  You can be the first to try it!  :)

Ricko's picture
Ricko

Interesting! On that line of thinking, once the dough is placed in the pan and the lid slid on, couldn't I flip the pan and place it's lid on the baking stone?

IceDemeter's picture
IceDemeter

I still haven't managed to get my paws on a pullman pan, so have been creative with sealing the loaf in an aluminum foil "bag" wrapped around a standard loaf pan.  I have placed that sealed "bag" in a large roaster with a couple of inches of water in the bottom, and used a couple of different time / temperature variations (starting cold and steady set at 225 deg F for 24 hours, and starting with 350 deg F for 1 hour, dropping to 300 deg F for 1 hour, then dropping to 250 deg F for 16 hours).

I haven't seen or tried the specific recipe that you mention, but have used versions both with and without starter, with and without scalded whole rye kernels, and with and without some whole rye flour (as opposed to just coarse rye chops and whole kernels).  The options that I've tried do not include any ingredients besides rye (including rye malts), water, and salt (and the yeast in the natural rye starter, when used).

I am the only one of my family and friends who actually like (love!) the result, but have been assured by a German visitor that it is pretty much authentic.  I followed Mini Oven's advice above to keep wrapped, slice thinly with a fine blade, and to freeze already sliced --- and, for me, it is a wondrous and delectable treat.  Keep in mind, however, that I consider brioche to be far too sweet even for cake, and that I consider a lean 100% rye loaf with a bit of chopped dried fruits to be a great sweet dessert...in other words, I have unusual flavour preferences (i.e. I'm weird - or so my friends tell me).

The flavour notes that develop over the days are fascinating - ranging from a heavy blackstrap molasses taste, through to a deep, dark chocolate, and notes of dark roasted coffee beans.  Giving a slice a heavy toasting after it has aged a week brings out even more complex flavours and aromas.

My current preference is for the version including some flour, including a small amount of starter, and including a scald of whole kernels with a mix of  non-diastatic (red and chocolate) rye malts, and adding a small amount of diastatic (white) rye malt in to the dough.  I like the small bit of lightening of the crumb that I get with this, without actually ruining the desired almost cheese-like texture. 

I'll definitely keep playing with this one, and it will remain a valued treat that I always keep on hand. 

I highly recommend giving it a shot, but keep in mind your own personal flavour and texture preferences, and remember that this is not going to be anything like a wheat bread in handling or result.  You may end up loving it or hating it, but it is still worth the try.

Keep baking happy!

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

and if you search this site you will find many. Gerhard, now a Canadian Fresh Lofian of note, grew up 40 Km from where it was invented in Germany.  The old school original recipe doesn't even have any leaven in the mix at all - Just rye meal and water and baked low and slow at 100 C for 24 hours as the video he attached to hos post shows.  All the other ones were made up by other bakers over the years like Stan has and I have done so myself.  I prefer 20% whole wheat and and sourdough in mine though  

DeKay's picture
DeKay

I made this version of the bread, but used regular dark whole rye flour instead of pumpernickel flour, cracked rye instead of cracked wheat, and whole grain flour instead of white whole wheat.  That and I skipped the caramel, figuring that was largely just to color the loaf.  I baked it off in a pyrex loaf pan covered with a layer of aluminum foil scrunched on as tight as I could make it.  It turned out great and I'll certainly make it again.

http://www.kingarthurflour.com/recipes/westphalian-rye-bread-recipe