The Fresh Loaf

A Community of Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts.

Malt Extract Powder

Craig-Kathy's picture
Craig-Kathy

Malt Extract Powder

We've been following the forums here for a long time, not being a member. We bake mostly a version of "commercial" bread, rye bread, and hamburger-hotdog buns. We're trying to get a very specific, unique Italian roll and have worked with just about every ingredient. We recently found a home brewing supply store near here, and bought some NON-diastatic malt powder extract. We'd used some DIAstatic malt barley powder and had poor results. We've read all over the place that malt extract does nothing other than perhaps add some flavor, maybe increases proofing times, or perhaps adds a bit of extra browning. Here's what we've learned.

First of all, the diastatic malt barley powder does increase moisture, does maybe help with preservation, but it eats yeast! We wrecked several loaves of bread by putting in a bit too much, and were using only about 1/4 teaspoon! We learned that most flour includes some amount of the diastatic powder anyway, so we abandoned it totally.

We then went for awhile, and experimented with low-hydration vs high-hydration. We found that adding water did increase crustiness, but we're looking for a unique combination of extremely dry and flaky crust, but moist crumb with visible air pockets. The bread we're trying to copy feels almost stale coming out of the bag. It's so light, it feels like cotton candy. But heating it for 10 minutes at 375 creates the most amazing Italian bread!

Okay, we researched more and learned that there is "free" water, and "organic" water. Maybe those aren't technical terms, but free water is the water outside the gluten that turns to steam and pushes up the bread in the oven. It evaporates, leaving air pockets. Organic water is trapped in the gluten and provides moisture to the crumb. It only begins to dry when the bread is over-baked.

If we used low-hydration at 60% we got a decent crust, but the bread felt dry to the tongue and tasted dry. At 65% it was better, but then the crust started getting too hard. Over that, and we got a baguette, pretty much. We added an egg and got a fine, creamy crumb, but more like a dinner roll. We used milk, milk powder, or whey, and every time that created more of a pie-crust-like outer crust.

Our next breakthrough was to put the bread in (on parchment paper, on an aluminum jelly-roll pan), and tent it closely with aluminum foil. That provided the steam to prevent the crust from forming. We read the science of crusts, and saw that water antagonizes thick crusts. We want a super thin, almost non-existent crust that flakes and shatters with the least pressure.

The tenting got rid of the issue of adding a pan of water or tossing ice cubes around. We baked tented for about 15-20 minutes, removed the tent, put the now-fixed roll on a wire rack and then finished for around 5-10 minutes. The times vary because each combination, as well as oven temp produced different results. None of which worked.

Time passed, we kept at it. Then we found actual non-diastatic malt extract. There are many flavors, but we went with a sort of basic golden ale. The guy at the brewing company said he'd had limited experience with bread makers, but that he thought it would be the least distracting, least "heavy" in flavor.

We also make a 1lb loaf, typically with around 4 cups of flour (King Arthur bread flour), about 500-something grams. Our first try we added 1 TBsp of the powder and kept everything else exactly the same. This is our daily bread, so we know exactly how it tastes, bakes, forms, and so forth. Wow!

The malt extract fundamentally changed the texture and flavor of the bread. For the first time, we had the moist mouth feel without impacting the crust. The bread was slightly more golden, but pleasantly so. We then made it again, this time with 2 TBsp. The guy at the brewing store told us that malt extract powder is Very Thirsty! It wants a lot of water!

Another project we do is to make home-style Grandma's old stuffing. It's that sort of gluey, mushy, oh-so-good sage, celery and onion dressing you can't buy. To do that we had to use commercial Italian because there's a sort of sweetness we couldn't replicate. Suddenly, with the 2 TBsp of malt extract, we had that sweetness! So we made stuffing.

An interesting problem with the original bread, when used in stuffing, is that although it slices well, holds its shape, toasts just fine, it falls apart with liquid. With either French toast or in Grandma's stuffing, it dissolved far too easily. We did half-and-half our "white" bread and Challah (we make that too), and it was better, but still dissolved with liquid. The added malt extract kept it from dissolving! The trapped, organic water provided that beautiful softness held within the chicken-broth liquids, and then baked perfectly without even adding any egg!

The bread felt much better, more silky, and it rose easily. No difference in proofing time. We've learned about autolyzing, and with 15 minutes, it helps. We added no extra water, keeping at (I think) 65% hydration. The end result was amazing.

Now we tried it with our Italian experiment and we're amazed to find we're almost there! The problem of the too-thick, too-heavy, too-hard crust is apparently the free water. Lower the water, we get dry crumb. Increase the water, we get hard crust. And yes, we've changed everything over the years, from heat, time, temp, and what-all else.

The malt powder actually goes out and traps water. It's so thirsty, it captures what free water the gluten doesn't take, and keeps it for itself. The remaining smaller amount of free water still creates steam, air pockets, and a super thin crust. However, with the additional organic water, now trapped both in the gluten AND the malt powder, the crumb comes out soft, moist, and has a wonderful mouth feel.

No recipe at the moment, as we're still experimenting with 145 grams KA bread flour. If it doesn't work, we throw it away and it's only a cup. Later, we'll adjust for a regular recipe. For now, we also learned about the Amazing Proof-o-Meter -- a graduated shot glass. We tested at room temperature, and the current bread rose nicely for 1 hour, and doubled in size. We baked it, and it's almost right. We also left the pinch of dough in the shot glass, to find the point where the yeast was exhausted.

We found that the yeast was still well functional at 2 hours, with the dough now tripling in size. Our next attempt will do that --- final proof of 2 hours, 3x in volume.

Take-away: NON-diastatic malt powder extract does a whole lot more than just add a little sugar, or add a bit of flavor. It allows for a lower-hydration bread that still retains the crumb of a higher-hydration. That completely changes the crust thickness.

Additionally, we're going to try some malt syrup -- same company, also golden ale. We're likely not going to get our results because the syrup is NOT as thirsty as the powder. It likely just substitutes sugar. We'll see, but we'll maybe go with both; one for the flavor addition (the syrup), the other for the texture results.

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

grain that has been sprouted for several days that convers the starch in the grain berry into sugar and more Amylase enzymes that convert the starch in flour into sugar.  The sprouts are dried at low temperatures usually around 105 F so that the enzymes created are not damaged or denatured. so that once they get wet again start to break starch into sugar.  It is used in about 6 tenths of 1% as an additive for white patent flours to provide enough enzymes to break enough of the starch in the flour into sugars for the wee beasties to eat,

Non diastatic malt or red malt is exactly the same a diastatic malt except that the sprouts are dried at much higher temperatures that denature the enzymes so that they cannot provide the catalyst to break starch down into sugar.  This process also can turn the make a red color if a high enough temperature is used in the drying process.  What is left in red malt is just basically just sugar.  It is added in larger quantities to basically color the crust and crumb and provide some residual sugars which help caramelize the crust.   When dried at higher temperatures the color goes past red and onto the brown, dark brown and chocolate colors that brewers love so much to make dark beers like porter and stout.  Bakers love these malts to make dark rye and pumpernickel.  

Sprouted flour is a different kettle of fish than malt.  It is sprouted for a day until the the first rootlets just break the skin of the seed and then dried at 105 F and ground into flour.

Here is a web site that helps explain the uses of malt in baking.

I make my own malts, both red and white and also sprout my own grains for bread.   If you search this site using terms like sprouting grain. making red rye malt or making white malt you will see them.

http://www.virtuousbread.com/bread-and-conversation/what-is-malt-and-how-is-it-used-in-baking-bread.

Happy experimenting with malt.  I think you will find that malt has little to do with a thin glass shattering crust and more to do with temperature of the bake, steaming techniques / time and hydration of the dough.

Craig-Kathy's picture
Craig-Kathy

With all due respect, we've read perhaps more than 50 articles, posts, and forum discussions over 5 years, that all tell us how non-diastatic malt extract does "nothing more than add a bit of flavor," or sugar. We agree that the malt by itself has little to do with the thin crust. However, the strong effect of capturing extra free water definitely changes the amount of steam available in the dough to create a crust of "some sort." The malt, therefore, has a direct connection to the crust formation.

We've done pretty much every steaming method, and tried hydration levels in increments of 2% with exactly the same ingredients, and the steaming never produced the effect. Yes, steam has a major influence on what kind of crust results, but it never creates the particular crust we want. The ONLY variable we've introduced has been the malt extract powder. In our rye bread, white all-purpose bread, and now this experimental Italian roll, that malt extract has had a strong enough impact that we wanted to write it out. In particular to make the case against the common theme of malt having no major effect.

pmccool's picture
pmccool

Thanks for being so specific (and so persistent!) about all of your attempts.  Any chance of some before/after formulae with pictures to illustrate the differences?

You mention your attempts to tent the baking bread in an effort to trap steam.  That's very similar to using a Dutch oven or a cloche for the same purposes, although the foil may have allowed more steam leakage around the edges.  Steam is the key to the "shattering" crusts so beloved by baguette aficionados, so you might want to loop back to some further experimentation with it. 

Thanks for sharing what you've tried and the outcomes.

Paul

Craig-Kathy's picture
Craig-Kathy

We're from the Chicago area, where we purchase Turano brand French rolls. Their primary competitor is Gonnella, but the Turano rolls are specific. They're about 7" long, 3" wide, 2" high and weigh (from the bag) about 3 oz. They're ultra light, when picked up in the hand, and have a sort of "stale" feel to the outside, with a soft, almost non-existent crust similar to a slice of Wonder bread. They're scored once, length-wise, and pre-cut about 3/4 through. They're used for Italian sausage sandwiches and whatever else.

When opened up, the crumb is moist to the touch, typical for Italian bread in the number and size of air pockets (holes), and has a good spring to it. We bake it at 375 for about 8 minutes to "re-crisp" the bread, per the instructions on the bag. The result is astounding! The crust gets crisp, and during a bite, isn't noticeable as the teeth slice through the crust, crumb, and into the inner ingredients. During eating, the bread flakes off a ton of fine crumbs, but not like stale bread. It's, again, quite similar to toasting a slice of Wonder bread in a toaster.

We're using:

145 grams KA bread flour1/2 tsp yeast
1-1/2 tsp malt extract powder
1/8 tsp salt

Cool tap Water (as follows):

3/4 tsp granulated sugar in a cup on a scale

Tare the scale

Add water to complete a total of 87 grams. The combination of sugar (wet ingredient) and water totals 87 grams -- 60% hydration. We've tried everything up to 75% hydration, and get a better result at 60% (slightly under because the sugar is about 5 grams).

Note: We're stirring the flour, malt, yeast in a mixing bowl (small), then adding the salt last to buffer it from the yeast. We're using cool water to create the overall temperature of combining room/flour temp, air temp, and water to make approximately 120-degrees (just under 54-C, a sort of French baguette formula thing).

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We're adding approximately half the water first, then hand mixing to move it around. Then pushing aside any moist flour, leaving dry flour and slowly adding bits of water to that. As it moistens, we're pushing that aside to the already-moist pile, and continuing to moisten the dry flour. We have a very shaggy dough, barely moist, and smoosh that together in fingers for a minute. Any water left, we dump at the bottom of the bowl, then sop it up with the ball.

Autolyze covered for about 15 minutes. Re-knead by hand to just make the flour into a ball of dough. Autolyze a 2nd time for about 20 minutes. Knead for a few minutes, just to get the hard lumps out.

We're then letting it rise for whatever amount of time we feel like, typically around 3 hours on the counter (winter or summer, doesn't matter). If it's winter, we'll keep it near the counter light for SOME warmth, but the dough gets warm on its own. We've tried many rise times, rise numbers, and this works best.

It's a light kneading with fingers, then very long initial rise for development. We've even done a Bigga, rose in the fridge overnight, fridge for hours, more or less Bigga....whatever. Didn't work.

At the end of that (when we get up from a nap), we'll push it down, roll it out a bit, cut it in half. Since it's not done yet, we don't weigh the pieces, but in the past, 3-1/2 oz or raw dough bakes down to 3 oz.

Form into 5-1/2" logs. Right now, we're not picky about the sizes. Later, if it works, we'll be specific because that works really well for sausage. This is just a test phase.

It doesn't matter much if you do the three-way folding like baguettes, so we just form a basic log and roll it out simply, by hand, like a piece of clay. Place on parchment paper in a jelly-roll pan. Cover the two logs with oiled plastic wrap and proof the second time. Here's where we're varying: 1 hour doubles, and that's nice, but 2 hours triples and "may" be a good idea. Not sure yet.

30 minutes of preheated oven. Currently using 375, electric oven, middle rack. One notch up is where we roast chicken or bake cookies for browning. Middle rack has consistent steady temperature, but doesn't cause as much browning. We use that for all the other breads/buns. We're varying which rack-notch at the moment, as we're also trying anything from 350 to 450 degrees. Pizza crust works best on the 2nd notch down from the top.

Put in the oven. We have a plastic bin that fits inside a jelly-roll pan, so we use that upside down to squish some tin foil into a loose "box." Easier than just tenting, and keeps "most" of the steam in, like the cloche but not as heavy. Lift off the "formed foil" and it's a nifty little covering.

Experimenting: Currently, we're going covered for 20 minutes, uncovered on a rack for 4-5. Did it again at 15 minutes, 15 uncovered. First one got us almost the right result, but not enough browning. Second try got the browning, but the crust was a bit too hard. Plus, with 2-hour rising, the rolls flattened a bit too much (they were YoooOOOGE!)

At the mark, we've got a wire cooling rack sitting on the counter and take the jelly-roll out of the oven. The crust has set at that point, so we'll slide the parchment paper onto the rack, hold the rolls, and slide out the paper. That leaves the rolls on a rack with no bottom pan. Put that rack back in the oven for a more even browning.

At 350, we didn't get much crust. At 375 (middle rack) we got a fine crust, but little browning. We've only made 2 attempts with the new malt addition, so it's "on-going," as they say. So far, the triple-size 2hr proof is pretty nice, but if we can't keep the shape, we'll stick with 1hr proof, double in size.

Understand that this is making an excellent piece of bread. It's just not what we want. The addition of the malt extract has a profound effect, providing that weird contradiction of a dry outer crust but nice moist inside that's NOT gluey.

Oh, and we're letting the hot rolls just cool enough to handle, then putting them in a plastic bag to soften the crust even more. Again, with the Turano rolls, they're so soft they're like Wonder bread coming out of the bag, only with a hard bottom that feels kind of stale. They're not stale --- rolls are less than 2 days old in our hands, from the bakery.

Lazy Loafer's picture
Lazy Loafer

Good work, doing such controlled experiments! There are so many factors that influence bread, and it's quite a job to change just one thing and then record the difference. Thanks for all the information.

So, is this dried malt extract you're using, or red malt (whole malted barley that has been toasted and ground fine)? I have some of both, as well as some diastatic malt (malted barley that has not been toasted, but which can be ground into fine powder or flour).

I haven't noticed a lot of difference with adding the dried malt extract (DME) into my standard sourdough. Adding the red malt (I have two of them - a crystal malt and a beautiful dark one that smells like tiny coffee beans) to one of my loaves adds beautiful flavour and colour, but the biggest factor in tenderizing the crust on that loaf was to switch out half of the strong bread flour for all purpose flour. Much better.

I haven't used the diastatic malt much because the bread flour I use already has added amylase and I don't want my dough turning to soup.