And then there was rye....
Hi all!
I’ve baked 5 sourdough loaves using the same formula and I felt like it was time for a change. So last week, I asked for some suggestions for what to try next and it seemed like rye was popular choice... I wasn't feeling particularly brave about it, but i decided to go for it.
So here’s my first try at a sourdough rye loaf. What fun!! But so different from my last few bakes. Mixing and shaping this dough was like working with clay, very therapeutic.
I went with a 70% rye flour, 78% hydration loaf (if i did my maths right). The original formula has raisins in it but I decided I liked the idea of sunflower seeds better, so that’s what I did!
I had no idea what I was going to get (my nightmare being an overly dense brick since i decided to live on the edge and leave out the instant yeast i was meant to add). I waited 24 hours before slicing, not sure why i'm meant to do this, but all the formulas i'd read told me to, so i did.
It tastes great! Not as sour as I wanted though, but that’s something I can work on next time. The crumb is moist and tender but not gummy, which is good.
Here's how i did it:
First levain build
15g rye starter
45g water
45g rye flour
I let that sit for about 12 hours
Second build:
All of the first build
110g rye
130g water ( i was only supposed to add 110g of water but i think my starter likes higher hydration levels)
Left that in the oven which the light on, it doubled in 4 hours.
Final dough:
All of the levain
135g white bread flour
155g rye flour
165g water
75g sunflower seeds
9g salt
I mixed the flours and water and let it sit for about 30 mins before adding the salt. Then i added the salt and kneaded the dough (without the levain) until it was nice and smooth and quite stretchy. I wasn't meant to do this, but my gut told me to, so i did.
This is what i got...
I wasn't expecting much oven spring, but i got more than i hoped (even though it wasn't dramatic like my previous loaves).
Any tips or feedback from the well trained eyes on this forum will be much appreciated!
P.S. Here is the link to the original formula:
https://www.weekendbakery.com/posts/3-stage-70-rye-bread-with-raisins/
Comments
be a nice addition. I like prunes better than raisins in higher % rye breads. The strong flavor of the rye can overpower the sour in these breads too which is why I too like them as sour as possible plus the acid really helps the crumb structure in rye breads too. You want to let these breads sit before slicing so that the crumb moisture can redistribute itself to the crust to soften it and make the crumb less gummy which makes it easier to slice thinly. This one looks tasty. So how did you figure it was ready for the heat of the oven and what temperature did you bake it too on the inside? These are my favorite kinds of breads to eat - white bread has a difficult time standing up to the taste of the darker ones.
Well done and happy baking
After i shaped it i let it sit, and almost double in size. I did lots of reading before this, and i picked up that high % rye loaves become unstable if they're left for too long because of the enzymes (i think) and struggle to hold their rise? Well, anyway most of it was a gut feeling kind of thing so i kind of eye balled it and then put it in the oven.
I baked it at 250C for 20 mins with steam and then 220C for another 20 mins. I don't have thermometer (i should get one), so baking was kind of gut feeling thing too. I took it out when i looked like it had a good colour on the outside, i tapped the bottom and it sounded done!
Does it look under/over baked or under proofed?
Instant read thermometers are very cheap. You want to make sure to bake a 70% ryre bread to 96-97 C otherwise it is just to gummy for me. Sadly you can't tell easily from the outside like a white bread. These never get light and thump like a drum. Mini Oven says when you think they are done then bake them for 5 minutes more. Better to use a thermometer. I like to get these kinds of breads in the oven at 85% or no more than 90% proof or when they start to crack well on top. I usually put these in a tin and dust with either bran or whole rye flour to see when it cracks clearly. Proofing in a basket, all my proof cheats are useless but they might work with a free standing loaf if you are brave and a bit loony:-)
It just looked a bit wet on the bottom so Mini's Rule would have worked well :-) No worries.... for a first time high % rye this one was stellar 00.
Oh!!! That's how some rye loaves get that awesome cracked looking surface with the flour on top! So mine probably could have done with a bit more time before baking.
Next time i make this loaf i'll remember that.
Can't wait!
Thanks again!
Happy Baking :)
Your first rye looks very good. I have just a couple comments to add to dab's. First, taking on a 70% rye as a first rye is gutsy, but you pulled it off! Second, the procedure you describe, while typical for a mostly-wheat bread is atypical for a rye. That's not a criticism of what you did; it appears to have worked.
High-percentage rye breads are not autolysed. The autolyse is to give gluten development a head start before salt grabs the dough's water and the levain starts fermentation. The head start is to shorten mixing and, thus, preserve more of the carotenoids in wheat flour that contribute good flavors but are oxidized by intensive mixing. Rye breads are generally not mixed for long periods at high speed anyway, so an autolyse is not helpful. Usually, all the ingredients except solids like your sunflower seeds are mixed right off. The seeds are added towards the end of mixing. For a bit more detail regarding autolyse, see Understanding autolyse
Your procedure did have one interesting effect. Since you delayed adding the rye sour ("levain"), you probably developed the gluten in the wheat flour more that you would have using a more traditional procedure for rye breads.
The TFL Handbook (See the menu at the top of the page.) has a section on rye under "ingredients" you might find informative. See: Rye Flour
Bottom line: Nice job! Congratulations!
David
was risky to start with 70% rye, but i just couldn't help myself, even though i was scared! :)
Thanks for the compliment and the feedback!
The "understanding autolyse" thread was really useful. I wander at what % rye, the development of gluten in the wheat flour stops making a difference? At 30% wheat flour, do you think the kneading i gave the dough (before the adding the levain) may have changed the structure of the bread to some extent or would i probably have gotten the same result? I'm just asking for next time, maybe i'll try skipping the kneading and see what i get
Thanks again David!
I don't know that there is a fixed percentage. I can tell you that recipes for 40% rye (60% wheat) usually call for much less mixing/kneading than a 100% wheat dough. I will also confess I usually mix those doughs longer than specified in the recipe, and I think I get a lighter (less dense) crumb. I may also get a little weaker flavor though.
See what works for you and let us know. I like your "let's try it and find out" attitude! Systematic experimentation is a great way to learn this craft. Way better than random flailing in the dark.
David
in Nam was a real no no too. We had Starlight scopes but it wasn't like owning the dark our military has and enjoys today! It wasn't much better to let them flail in the dark either though - now that I think about it some.......
Is this about the oxidation of .... i can't really remember.
In "Bread Baking" by Daniel DiMuzio he mentions something about how bread that undergoes intense kneading ends up whiter and less flavorful, because something gets oxidized (the details escape me).
I will let you know what happens after this weeks bake :)
What you are trying to remember is carotenoids. These pigments are what gives hand-mixed bread crumb a yellowish color. They are important contributors to bread flavor and are oxidized in intensive mixing.
David
Thanks David.
I'm trying to learn the science behind the baking as i go along.
Excellent first attempt! Most people end up with bricks or doorstops with a 70% rye so great job.
Another ingredient that goes great with rye is beer.
One thing I find when making rye breads is that long bulk retarding of the dough give you a very sour loaf, but as DA says you have to be careful not to do it too long or the dough will start to degrade.
Regards,
Ian
for a loaf that calls for a dark type of beer in it yesterday! It was a bit of a "mind blown" kind of moment for me but in a good way :) My list of things to try is growing at an alarmingly rapid pace!
Just out of interest, do you find that the bitterness of the rye gets intensified by the beer, or does it add a completely different flavor to the loaf? The recipe i read only has a small amount of beer (15%), but i guess that's enough to add some value.
Thanks for the compliment by the way. i think i have a ways to go, but if the first loaf was perfect, baking wouldn't be any fun!
In terms of the long bulk retardation of a rye dough, what's the sign that its ready? DAB mentioned that when the dough is starting to look cracked on top, its about ready to go, but that's if its at room temp.
Happy baking :)
P.S. Here's the link to the recipe i mentioned if you're interested:
http://www.theperfectloaf.com/rye-sourdough-and-smorrebrod/
I don't find that the beer adds any bitterness at all. It adds it's own flavor that is very distinctive depending on what kind you use. I usually don't leave a high percentage rye to bulk ferment longer than 24 hours if I can help it. The few times I did the bread ended up way too sour.
If you are interested you can look on my blog at www.mookielovesbread.wordpress.com and just do a search for rye and beer.
Regards,
Ian