The Fresh Loaf

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Problems with KA Pro Line 7 qt and bagel dough

Dbtfree15's picture
Dbtfree15

Problems with KA Pro Line 7 qt and bagel dough

hi all. I am kind of new here. Have recently been raising my own starter and making my own wild yeast breads including bagels. Needed a mixer that could hack it but also work for my wife when she wanted to make meringues and cookies etc. Ended up getting the KA Pro Line and made bagels with it the first night (Using Wild Yeast Blog sourdough bagel recipe). It's a dense dough, but two things happened. 1) the mixer (on speed 2 of course) would bog down a little Almost stop at a certain spot every time. 2) the bowl would pop out of the back catch but stay connected at the two arms, rock back and forth heavily till one of the motions snapped it back into its catch. 

 

I dont want to stand and hold the bowl in every time. I made pizza dough and some other bread over the next couple of days with apparently no issues, so maybe it is just bagels. I had looked at the Kenwood Mastmet Titanium 800w for $100 more, and the Ankarsum/Elextrolux Assistent for $200 more. The Assistent looks like an awesome dough machine but the mixing bowl for non dough work is plastic (big gripe in our house) and seen a lot of reviews and comments saying it really is just ideal for bread, not other. 

So, my two questions: is that popping out of the catch on dense dough normal for the KA Pro Line or Pro 600? It isn't good to just leave it and let it keep doing that right? Does it happen on large batches and whole wheat as well? Or just bagel-type?

 

Did I buy the wrong one? Thoughts?

suave's picture
suave

How much were you making?

Dbtfree15's picture
Dbtfree15

Doubled this recipe: http://www.wildyeastblog.com/sourdough-bagels-2/

About 1600 g total.  Maybe I just need to double it, but knead separately.

suave's picture
suave

AFAIK, 6 and 7-cup KA's do no differ from 5-cup bowl-lift machine in capability.  A 5-cup KA's certainly can't (and aren't supposed to) handle more than 1 batch of bagel dough.

Dbtfree15's picture
Dbtfree15

The 6 cup lift machines have almost double the wattage in motor power as my classic tilt-head.  The one I bought, the Pro Line, is listed at 1.3 HP, which I think works out to about 800-900 watts, almost triple the "power" of my tilt head.  So I was assuming I'd have better luck, but I know there is a difference between power/torque etc.  Gunna have to keep considering the Ankarsrum.  Thanks for the input.

drogon's picture
drogon

At 55% hydration.. And I note in that web page it says:

  • I made this batch of eight bagels in my KitchenAid mixer. Your mixer may not be able to handle any larger batch of this very stiff dough.

So maybe they were right...

I have a bagel challenge for next week, so I'll be making some for the first time - however I might just stick to a smaller batch (Kenwood Chef Premier - same size as the Titanium but a smaller motor)

-Gordon

pmccool's picture
pmccool

When I purchased a KitchenAid KSM7990 mixer (7-quart bowl and NSF compliant), I wanted to see whether it had the strength to handle bagel dough.  That's one of the hardest tests you can throw it this type of mixer.  I used the ITJB recipe and the machine responded very much like yours, except the bowl didn't pop loose.  It would stall or nearly stall whenever a ball of dough got between the dough hook and bowl wall.  Even after I split the dough in half, the symptoms persisted.  So, rather than destroy the machine, I finished kneading by hand and got a serious upper body workout.

I can't speak to the other mixers you mentioned but I do know that a stiff dough, such as for bagels, is not compatible with a KA mixer. 

Paul

Dbtfree15's picture
Dbtfree15

Hi Paul thanks so much, very useful.  I guess I'm just curious, does anyone have any suggestions for a mixer that is not a commercial one that would match this task as well as be good for batters and baking?  I've heard a lot of great stuff about the Electrolux Assistent, but the plastic bowl kinda scares me and my wife off, as we've had bad experiences with Bosch.

bakermomof4's picture
bakermomof4

I would suggest the Ankarsrum mixer, I bought it about 4 months ago and love it, it does take some getting used to.

I bought mine from Pleasant Hill Grain since I have purchased other items from them and have been really happy with their customer service. And the price recently went down $100 to $699 with free shipping. The reason I like purchasing from them is because they have a 90 day money back warranty if you aren't happy with your purchase.

richkaimd's picture
richkaimd

I make bagels with the DLX.  It's not a problem at all.  I mix all sorts of doughs for cakes and cookies using the metal bowl with the roller.  Also, not a problem.  I use the plastic bowl only for whipping egg whites and such.  Again, not a problem.

And, it's still like new after about 20 years.

RightNow's picture
RightNow

I got a great birthday gift a few weeks ago in the form of an Ankarsrum Assitent. One concern of mine had been how it would handle things that weren't bread. Let me say I was wrong to doubt it. I had read the steel bowl and roller wouldn't cream butter. So I set up a few tests. In each case it creamed butter marvelously. So far I can fairly easily say, even after a few weeks, I'll never use a KA again. 

I have used the BPA free plastic bowl for a few things to test them. It worked well and was easy to scrape down, add more ingredients, etc. Just like the big bowl. My only hiccup was putting some seriously large chunks of chocolate in some cookie dough which caused the cookie whips to skip around a bit. So rather than force that I finished by hand. 

I have many of the attachments (it was a good birthday) and the only one I'm not wild about, yet, is the blender. I made hummus. My recipe was too much so it shut off. I found out thats common in standalone blenders for my recipe. (Recipe says to use food processor but I don't have one at the moment.)

I thought I would add another opinion. Good luck!

Sid Post's picture
Sid Post

The small commercial mixers like the Chinese Presto! 10qt might be an option for you though they are seriously heavy.  The are ~$800 new from the popular places.

hanseata's picture
hanseata

I had the same problem with the KA 7-qt Pro: every time I used it for kneading, the bowl sprang out of the catch, and I had to hold it in place. Fortunately, a tech-savvy friend was able to work on the catch so that it could do its job holding the bowl. But, with its problems dealing with bread dough, I'm so disenchanted with the KA that I hardly ever use it anymore.

Unfortunately, my Ankarsrum, though it works fine with softer dough, is not able to handle less hydrated dough very well, either. Trying to knead the dough for a batch of whole grain pitas with the roller, the dough forms a stiff column that rises up over the rim of the bowl and gets caught in the mixer arm.

The only mixer I could really rely on, no matter what kind of dough I mixed, was the 7-qt Cuisinart. In 9 years of heavy duty (almost every day) usage, I went through two machines (one quit after wandering off the counter top and falling down, the other started smoking, even though it was switched off - but still plugged into the outlet).

But it seems that they never made a newer model, and the old one you can hardly find in stores anymore.

Karin