The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

Historic Menus

dobie's picture
dobie

Historic Menus

dabrownman posted a few links last week that I have been reading thru and linking thru and I found this, that I thought might be of some interest to some.

http://menus.nypl.org/menus

There is a lot  there, and much of it worthwhile (in my opinion).

Pick your decade or century, region or restaurant.

dobie

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

is the most expensive thing by far instead of the meat from 1850 - 1920 which is all I have looked at

dobie's picture
dobie

dbm

Actually, that didn't surprise me. It's just like today; the bar bill is often as great or greater than the meal.

What caught my eye was how expensive a simple chicken consume was. And plain old celery as well. You know, comparatively speaking.

Altho, I did read in the pages prior that you sent me to, that 'vegetables' as we know them today, were not that popular.

And what is it with boiled Turkey and Oysters? It seems to have been very common. And beef and fowl with just about everything, including eggs with breakfast. And apparently 'shellfish' was much more popular than 'fish'. Imagine that. It might have been about freshness tho.

It was probably easier to keep some 'Blue Points' alive and fresh to the plate then fish. I know they used to pack them in barrels with seaweed and the salt water they came from for transport.

My father grew up in Blue Point by the way and ate those oysters like there would be no more tomorrow. I personally never aquired a taste for them. Too much like snot on a rock to me. Oops, I hear him spinning.

Regardless, it's fascinating stuff, and thanks for the links. I'm still nowhere near having exhausted all the resources.

dobie

drogon's picture
drogon

It's only relatively recently that we've eaten chicken regularly - and cheap chicken at that. In ye old days they were worth far more for their eggs than meat - hence coc au vin, etc. as it was only the old ones (or the cockerels) that would be eaten. Also things like lobsters, etc. were so abundant that they were considered the food of the poor - how things have changed now...

-Gordon

dobie's picture
dobie

Yes Gordon

I was just watching the BBC Edwardian Farm series and they made a point of that. Not only to reserve for the eggs, but even to sell the meat of an old hen was worthwhile. So, even to a farmer with a flock of chickens, a Sunday bird was precious.

I remember my father telling me about how in the 1920's, the Sunday bird (from their flock) was much looked forward to and often the only meat they got other than the fish or mollusks they gathered from the nearby bay.

And I remember from readings of slavery and the US Cival War, how lobsters, even beef brisket, tails, hanger and skirt steak were considered slave food. All of which now command a premium price.

Hell, even chicken wings cost more today than the breast. We can thank the pubs for that (not that I care for wings much at all).

Thanks

dobie

gerhard's picture
gerhard

When I grew up in the 1960s in Germany my father raised rabbits which where a large per centage of our protein in take.  He also kept chickens and once raised a bunch of roosters for meat, I think they where hard to keep from fighting so they died an earlier death than planned when he got them.  We quit eating rabbit when even my father couldn't stand another one for dinner.  I think in those days the cost of meat took up a larger portion of peoples food budget than it does today.  I like cooking brisket but you are right it isn't inexpensive meat anymore.

Gerhard

dobie's picture
dobie

Gerhard

Sorry, somehow I missed this post.

Cock fights occur naturally and often lead to an early death. i guess that's why there's only one to a flock, usually.

I remember a friend of mine cradling and petting a poor loser in her arms one day, and in casual conversation, just twisted his neck.

I was much more careful about what I said to her, there on out.

dobie

gerhard's picture
gerhard

Cock fights occur naturally and often lead to an early death.

I did not mean that the roosters fought to the death just that they where invited to the dinner table at a younger age than first planned.

Gerhard

dobie's picture
dobie

Yes, Gerhard

Always first invited to dinner. But they do tend to not like each other, unless they can each rule their own roost (so to speak).

When they do fight, their spurs are quite dangerous and on occassion, can be sufficiently injurious to warrant a quick invitation to the table for the loser.

At least, that's what I recall, but it's been years.

dobie

I've only hunted and ate one rabbit in my life. It was quite good, but an unbearable process for the long term. No more Thumper on my plate.

gerhard's picture
gerhard

There is a pretty huge difference in flavour between a domesticated rabbit and one from the wild.  I only had wild rabbit once and it had a very distinct flavour compared to the domestic version.  Who knows it may have also been in the preparation of the meat.  I remember eating goose when I was young and seem to remember it as being good and was tempted to buy one when I saw fresh goose, along with duck and rabbit in the  butcher's case just before Christmas but our plans had already been made so I wasn't sure how to fit that into the menu.  Maybe he'll have them again around Easter and we'll give it a try.

Gerhard

dobie's picture
dobie

Gerhard

Interesting. I hadn't even thought of that, but I imagine there would be a distinct difference.

I have never had goose (other than as friends) and duck - very, very rarely (but I liked it).

If I were man enough, I would go down to the Harbor with my retriever and hunt a few. But alas, both the dog and I are too old to much care for that anymore.

Interestingly tho, there are a few who do, much to the chagrin of many of the local folks.

As it turns out, regardless of the Village law prohibiting the act, once your feet are in the water, New York State laws apply, and it is perfectly legal (in season, with migratory birds).

Whatever your butcher may have, I wouldn't hesitate to purchase.

I just don't want to kill it myself anymore. I know that is a contradiction (considering I would eat it), but considering my lowering testosterone levels (according to a friend of mine), I just don't have much stomach for that anymore (not that I ever really did).

dobie

Reynard's picture
Reynard

Rabbit... :-) I used to get my own (payback for barking my fruit trees), and / or get them from a friend, but haven't had wild rabbit for years because of several outbreaks of myxomatosis among the local wild population. My cats have brought in the odd ones too (still alive) but I've let them go as they were too small to make a decent meal.

I now get rabbit from one of the local butchers instead, though it's the domesticated variety which has less flavour. Upsides of that is a) it comes cleaned and jointed, so less faffing around for me and b) the quality of the meat is more consistent.

The same friend who used to bring me rabbit also brings me pheasant - he goes shooting where they rear them for the table.

Jon OBrien's picture
Jon OBrien

My French friends were always amazed when I turned down oysters. They used to go into ecstasies over them sometimes and, on more than one occasion, accompanied by a delighted grin, asked if it was because I found them disgusting. They always seemed disappointed to learn that it wasn't and that I just didn't like them, so saw no point in eating them.

embth's picture
embth

I collect old cookbooks...most are 1890s through the 1950's.  It is fascinating to see the trends in foods over the years. This NYPL site is wonderful!  Thank you, Dobie, for bringing it to my attention.   Embth

Reynard's picture
Reynard

Mine range likewise from the 1890s right up to the present day, and it's so interesting how foods do change.

OK, I also have a facsimile of a 1640s cookbook from Mrs Cromwell. The recipes were acquired from her household by a political opponent, and the original book was published as a piece of propaganda to show how mean she was. Not sure you could cook like that today though - can't see myself putting a quart of cream and a couple dozen oysters in a soup... :-p

The ones that amuse me the most (if that's the right word) are the 1950s ones just immediately post-rationing here in the UK. What gets done with food (combinations of things, mostly) sometimes has me totally baffled.

Incidentally, the ones I have that get used the most are the everyday ones from the late 1970s and early 1980s; Good Housekeeping, Milk Marketing Board, Potato Marketing Board etc... Full of good ideas and great on techniques (how to bone out a chicken etc), even if some of the food is distinctly dates.

Old cookbooks are such a wonderful culinary history lesson :-)

embth's picture
embth

take up a lot of shelf space in my house as well.   I like to search through books new enough to be relevant but old enough that the recipes do not call for a mix or other pre-packaged ingredient which is commonly the case in the 90's and 00's.   The "turn of the century" books (19th into 20th) assume a good bit of cooking knowledge in their readers…recipe instructions can be very brief.  Folks are definitely not worried about calories and cholesterol back then…lots of meats, organ meat, etc.  Of course, life involved much more physical work.  Vegetables were viewed as having little value in the diet…and had to be cooked for hours to be digestible.  Baking bread was routine work in many homes, although especially in urban areas, store bought bread is seen as a healthier alternative.  (machine made ="untouched by human hands.")   On the subject of healthy eating, I have a 1930's book distributed by the makers of Crisco, promoting use of their "pure vegetable shortening."

So, in your post-WWII cookbooks, what types of odd food combinations do you read about?   

dobie's picture
dobie

Reynard

Other than the Good Housekeeping one, I'm not familiar with the others, so I speak from ignorance about not only them, but many other (no doubt) fine books from the era.

But let's not forget 'The Joy of Cooking'. For what it is (and when it was) there's a broad spectrum of recipes and (to me, most importantly) techniques. Not as detailed as others, but fundamentally sound, I think. I would still recommend it to a young cook or bring it with me out to sea.

dobie

embth's picture
embth

My 1975 edition Joy of Cooking looks "well used"…stained pages and taped binding.  It is always at hand on the small kitchen bookshelf.  This classic cookbook is a nice gift for a young person striking out on their own.   I do prefer the earlier editions and own a reprint of the 1931 original…a great book.  

Reynard's picture
Reynard

"How to Cheat at Cooking" is very famous for its use of prepared foods being used to provide the illusion of home cooked meals.

As for odd combinations, tomato and tangerine salad, anyone? And cooked peas served in aspic... :-P Mind, some have become classics, such as coronation chicken - which I really like, incidentally LOL

The cookery books published by the milk and potato marketing boards are probably peculiar to the UK - they were basically produced to promote British produce, but have some wonderful recipes in them and are good everyday books. The one from the Milk Marketing Board is one of my go-to books and has everything from soups and starters through to desserts and bakes.

I also have a whole series published by Marks and Spencer which are pretty good, and likewise a set by Sainsbury's. They're all from the early-mid 1980s, but still very useable, even for the culinary challenged...

I have various by Marguerite Patten as well - her classic is from the 1960s, "Cookery in Colour".

Anything published by the Women's Institute is also a pretty good bet for recipes that work.

Jon OBrien's picture
Jon OBrien

The Dairy Book of British Food; The British Bacon Book; and one of the Sainsbury's publications, the name of which escapes me.

Reynard's picture
Reynard

Is one of the ones I have :-) I have a bacon book as well, but I can't, for the life of me, a) find it or b) say whether it's the British Bacon one or one promoting Danish bacon...

Jon OBrien's picture
Jon OBrien

The British one has a map of Britain made out of rashers of bacon on the front cover. I suspect you'd remember that.

Reynard's picture
Reynard

You might be right on that one... Can't say I've seen that on the cover of any of mine - or on any of mum's cookery books for that matter.

Another one to keep an eye out for, then... :-)

dobie's picture
dobie

embth

A 1931 edition (even in reprint) of the 'Joy of Cooking'? I had no idea it even existed. I have the 70s one and then the updated 90s (?) version, both of which are very helpful for basics I am not familiar with.

As well; Reynard, dbm, Gordan and Jon (sounds like a good band)

Damn, the last thing I need is to start collecting from a new view. But I thank you all for the recommendations. I will check them all out as I can. Good stuff.

Personally, I'm very fond of fruit with savory.

Just to cross threads, on Jon's recommendation (that, and the fact that I've been feeling a bit ill the past few days), I have watched the 'Tales from the Green Valley' BBC series. Now I'm on to the 'Edwardian Farm' series.

And altho they relate to more than just cooking (mostly, how did you get what you cooked, back then), there is a fair amount of good info and demonstration on how it was actually done 'back in the day'. I highly recommend them. Available on youtube.

Part of the reason I bring that up, is that in the 'Edwardian' series, they talk about how cheap wheat from the US (and Canada, no doubt), all but wiped out wheat as a profitable crop for British farmers. Thus, they moved on to other things (like beef and cash crops).

And ration cards (or was it books, or stamps) and Victory gardens, was the era of my parents as well. Hard times, worthwhile.

embeth - I would love to see Beard's 'War Bread' recipe if you get a chance.

dbm - I will check out you links as always. ps - the 'Western' link was not as rich as the 'Food Time Line' one.

Gordon - Higher import taxes? What ever happened to free trade. This is the thanks we get?

I'm totally kidding. I could care less, so long as no one is going hungry or is malnurished (or can't bake proper bread).

Speaking of malnurished, the 'Edwardian' series claims that when the 'Temperance' movement changed the UK diet to more tea and no beer back then, there were serious health issues that insued. Beer is good food. It's what's for breakfast.

Much like bread.

dobie

Reynard's picture
Reynard

The BBC did a series last year called "Back in Time for Dinner" which took a family through five decades of food in the UK, beginning in 1950 and ending with the Millennium. If you're interested in that sort of thing, it's well worth a watch. So is the Christmas special "Back in Time for Christmas" which tracks not just the food, but the way the holiday is celebrated.

Another favourite book is The St Michael All Colour Cookery Book by Jeni Wright. It's very definitely stuck in an early / mid 1980s time warp, but it's good for the basics and for satisfying waves of nostalgia LOL

P.S. Slow-cooked duck with prunes is really good :-D

dobie's picture
dobie

Thank you Reynard.

I have been enjoying every one of the series that I can get my hands on, and now, those are on my list.

And if a duck (or some prunes) should ever cross my path, they better watch out.

dobie

Reynard's picture
Reynard

I also found "Eat Well For Less" was interesting too. It does case studies about different families' shopping and cooking habits. And their food waste habits. Was a real eye-opener, especially the recent Christmas special.

Made me realise that as someone who cooks mostly from scratch using ingredients picked up in the "reduced for quick sale" cabinets, bakes her own bread and makes her own preserves, I'm the exception rather than the rule. Truth is, I just love good food :-)

Duck can always be found in my freezer as it's a firm favourite here :-)

dobie's picture
dobie

Reynard

Thank you for those titles. I seem to be able to find most of these shows once I know the title. Often times, simply on youtube. Imagine that.

I forget who I was having the conversation with recently (probably JonObrien, maybe Gordon, perhaps yourself and others), but it pertained to exactly what you bring up. The crap people put in their carts, and thus in their bodies and the ridiculous prices they pay for the 'convience'.

What kind of perserves do you make?

Thanks

dobie

gerhard's picture
gerhard

shopping for my wife and I because she can't stop herself so we end up throwing out half of the groceries while I can easily just buy what is on the list.  When standing in line at the checkout the carts containing mostly frozen prepared foods easily out number those that contain real food.  Some of the stuff you can get I did not even know was available like pre-cooked frozen burger including bun.  Cherie had a real ambitious day today so we made 6 meat pies, a lasagna, 18 butter tarts on top of the two loaves of bread I baked this morning.

For a lot of families cooking a meal must just mean using the can opener, pulling the entrée out of the freezer and heating it in the microwave.  For that matter I understand when you go out and eat in many of the chain restaurants, a step or two above fast food restaurants, they plate mostly factory prepared items that have been reheated by their "chef".  I guess the reason for this is portion control, reducing waste and a predictable experience in all their locations.  On our vacation earlier this month I went for morning coffee to a Starbucks and I have to say I would not be tempted to have their breakfast biscuit, it came fully prepared in a plastic pouch the clerk unpacked it added two strips of pre-cooked bacon and shoved it into their oven for a minute or less, I think an McMuffin at half the price contains fresher ingredients.

Cooking a real meal is cheaper, tastes better and is better for your health.

Gerhard

p.s. sorry for the rambling brain fart

Added some photos of today's little production

embth's picture
embth

it is amazing how many dishes were offered.  Today's restaurants offer far less variety.  The restaurants in the 19th and early 20th century, were preparing the food from fresh ingredients, not pre-fab frozen items.   People were much more content in the old days to sit, talk, and wait while dinner was prepared.  Which ties us in to another recent post about the pleasures of dining. No need to apologize. I could run on and on in agreement with your R.B.F.   : )

dobie's picture
dobie

Gerhard

No worries. As the OP of this thread, I can assure you that rambling and expanding are allowed, in fact, encouraged.

Once a year I go to Starbucks (as once a year, I get my car inspected and have a half an hour to kill). Last Tues was that day and I went there hungry (my mistake), so I ordered a bagel with my cup of coffee. The bill was nearly $4 US.

How they dare to offer such a miserable excuse for a bagel anywhere in the States, (let alone New York) and actually charge money for it, is beyond me.

There are bagel shops baking fresh every morning all around the area. In fact, there is one not a hundred yards from them. Next year, I'll go there instead.

When I'm on the road (which is not often), my favorite fast food breakfast is McD's sausage, cheese biscuit. I don't know how they do it, but it is a very passable biscuit. I like their coffee better than Starbuck's as well. Not that Starbuck's is bad, just nothing to write home about. As I seldom drink coffee, when I do, it better be decent at least. I know I'll catch hell for this, but when on the road...

Girl and I split the shopping in an odd way. I get the bulk and the basics (as well as whatever I want) and she picks up certainly specialty items (and the dog food). Somehow, without a word, it works out well and we throw out very little (and even then it goes to the worm farm, aka - compost).

You know how they say you should never go food shopping hungry or you'll end up buying everything? If I don't go food shopping hungry, I come back with nothing (or close to it). Not inspired by anything.

Even the restaurants that I know pretty well and who make most of what they offer in house, don't make it all. I'm always sure to ask the staff if something new that I'm trying is brought in or made there. That avoids a lot of disappointment. Not that I eat out a lot (maybe 3-4 times a year and then, with friends for 'occassions').

It sounds like you and Cherie had a busy and delicious day. Mine was a little less ambitious. Spinach pasta Ravioli stuffed two ways and chicken stock from last weeks bones.

I don't know if you've ever done a pie dough tutorial, but if you have I would love to find out about it. And if you haven't, please do. Girl thinks mine still needs work (I don't agree, but she's the client).

There, I matched your ramble pretty well I think.

Thanks Gerhard.

dobie

ps - if anyone else want to join in, ramble as you see fit. Our experiences today are tomorrow's history.

dobie's picture
dobie

Gerhard

I don't think you can that today's 'little' production.

What are you gonna do with all those meat pies?

You know my next question. How do you make them?

Looks great guys.

dobie

gerhard's picture
gerhard

We made this for this weeks lunches, we will probably freeze a couple of pies and some lasagna, give some of it Cherie's daughter.  The recipe for the pie crust is really simple

6 oz all purpose flour

4 oz lard

2 tbl spoons sugar (for savery pies we cut the sugar in half)

1/4 teaspoon salt

1 extra large egg or 2 large

I use a cheap pie blender to combine the lard and dry ingredients till it becomes pea sized balls and then add the egg and use the cutter just till it forms a ball.  Make sure all the ingredients are at refrigerator temperature and return the pastry ball to fridge for at least a couple of hours before use and it will safely store in the fridge for week.  The photo below is the type of tool I use to mix the pie crust.  I have tried making pie crust using a mixer before but the results where never as good as the hand made crust.  Before putting the pie in the oven apply an egg wash.

Gerhard

Reynard's picture
Reynard

Is a potato masher :-) But if it works, hey...

That's a pretty reasonable recipe for a rich shortcrust pastry :-) Some things are better made by hand - like pastry. If you overwork it (easy enough to do with a machine) or if you're heavy-handed, the end result can be quite tough.

School dinner shortcrust pastry is famous for its toughness, but that's a story for another time LOL

Love the look of your spread :-) A pretty satisfying day in the kitchen, it would seem :-)

gerhard's picture
gerhard

I admit it does resemble a potato masher but in North America that is the traditional tool for making pie crust, I don't know if the technique and tools used in the U.K. are different.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pastry_blender

Gerhard

Reynard's picture
Reynard

I've only ever made pastry by hand... :-) Rub the cold, cubed fat into the sifted flour and salt (and sugar if using) with fingers, add the liquid, bring together, chill and then use...

But I can see where a gadget like that can be useful :-)

One cookery book I have recommends using a cheese grater for a similar purpose.

drogon's picture
drogon

Thats'a a good looking spread above!

That tool is commonly used in the UK too, however I never found it much use myself. For small batches I use the blade in my magimix, and some sweet shortcrust pastrys I make in the kenwood chef.

I regularly make various pastrys - from pasty pastry to sweet shortcrust - even puff pastry when I can be bothered (although if you can make croissant dough you can make puff pastry)

Today is pasty day for the local market tomorrow ... some I made some time back:

And quiche too - same pastry - it's a 50/50 lard/butter plus bread flour and water mix. I make about 3.5Kg of it for that batch and maybe some cheesy puffs if there's any left over... (I make that in the A200) I have a nice vegetarian version made with olive oil which I use for my veggie empanadas. I'm up to 20 pastys at that market now - they seem to sell well!

(Note: Those are Devon Pastys, not to be confused with Cornish Pastys. Like the cream tea, the pasty was invented in Devon - the Cornish hust pirated the idea ;-)

That's what I call the more "domestic" side of my pastry - I make dainty fruit tartlets, and other little patisserie things too (not that often though - no real market for them here)

Next on the menu is proper hand raised pork pies - made with a hot water crust pastry. However I've had a hard time getting proper local lard - the stuff in the shops comes from the "EU" wherever that is. Fortunately I have an abattoir only a few miles away who are going to give me a shout the next time they get fat piggies in...

-Gordon

 

gerhard's picture
gerhard

Looks like something that would make a wonderful lunch.  It has been 5 years since we have been to Britain but I remember enjoying pasties then, we stayed in a town called Cirencester in the Cotswolds.  There was a Cornish pie shop there but their product was really dominated by onions, which I don't mind but it was just too much of a good thing.  There where a couple of local bakeries and there pies looked suspiciously similar and it turned out both bought them unbaked frozen from a bakery in Gloucester called Jane's Pantry.  I remember especially liking the curry pasties.

Gerhard

Jon OBrien's picture
Jon OBrien

...if it's made in Cornwall.

If you like curry pasties, try a samosa if you get the chance.

gerhard's picture
gerhard

I have had samosas before, there is a Indian take out place in the London Ontario market and theirs are good and I have had them as street food before at some festival and they where very oily so much so that I did not finish them.  I like most spicy food but I am not fond of super hot foods that burn your tongue and lips, seems a lot of bars serve run to the lake chicken wings that must be mainly bought more to prove the manliness of the purchaser than to enjoy the flavour.

Gerhard

dobie's picture
dobie

Just a quick pic. The two on the left are what I would call 'potato mashers' and on the right, a 'pastry cutter'. I could see where they would all be fairly interchangeable.

I'll catch up in a bit.

dobie

 

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

2 on the left but the one on the right can make mashed potatoes.  I always usea pastry cutter.  Much faster than fingers and it doesn't melt the fat like warm finger do.  My wife could actually chill pastry dough with her fingers though

dobie's picture
dobie

To all

I just read thru this whole sub-thread, and this will be scatter-shot response. But last first, as usual.

dbm - I nearly leaked a little laughing about how your wife can 'actually chill pastry' with her fingers. But I guess in Arizona, maybe anyone can (meaning, it's generally hot there - no personal dispersions).

I do think the center masher might do quite well tho, but I haven't yet tried it for pie dough. The thought never crossed my mind, but the handle dynamic would probably be more comfortable as those pastry cutters are too narrow in grip for my hand.

And back to the whole, I haven't used lard in pastry for decades, but recently found some 'organic' lard (that Girl, in particular, is big on) that I will give a try with Gerhard's process. I promise to stay true to the course, at least one time thru.

In my 'butter' attempts of recent years, I have tried diced straight from the fridge, diced then frozen, and frozen then grated. I have crumbled to pea by pastry cutter, food processor, blender (not quite a vitamix tho), by knife slashing knife and by finger pinching methods.

My feeling at this point is that straight from the fridge, cubed out and finger pinched to lima bean size seems best. Not that there's anything wrong with the other processes, but I would argue that pea size is a little small for me. A little larger seems to be flackier. Unless peas are bigger where you all are from ;-)

When it comes to fluid, I have tried just icy water alone, as well as mixed with vodka and/or lemon juice. The theories are; that vodka, (while being liquid) by alcohol, doesn't form gluten and that lemon juice retards gluten development.

Which begs the question of gluten and flour. Pastry, AP or Bread; and why or why not?

Gerhard - my standard recipe has been pretty similar to yours (altho using butter). About 12 oz flour to 8 oz butter to 4 oz water. I am (so far), fond of adding a TB of vodka and a TB of lemon juice to the water. Any thoughts from anyone about these additions and the reasons for or against, is desired.

Of all the dozens of recipes I have evaluated, I believe your's is the only one calling for egg with this one exception. Back story - I was trying to find the address of a bakery I loved in Boston for a fellow TFLian and stumbled upon this youtube video coming out of that bakery.

The bakery is 'Flour Bakery' and the baker's name is Joanne Chang. King Arthur featured her in one of their 'Baking In America' series. She also uses egg (and milk, in fact) and crumbles in the butter by fingers, but more importanly, she demonstrates a method of pie dough contruction called 'Frissage' (to smear) that I thought very interesting.

I tried this technique once (minus the egg and milk) and thought it worthwhile pursuing. Here's a link. (go to about 3:15 in)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tk7YfzA2cyY

Much more to address from all your comments, but duty calls. I'll be back.

Feedback yea or neigh, much appreciated.

dobie

gerhard's picture
gerhard

and they where interesting even though I don't agree with all she says. 

Thanks for the link 

Gerhard

dobie's picture
dobie

Gerhard

I did see that there were a number of vids of 'conferences' in which she spoke, but I haven't yet seen much more than a minute or two of them.

Any particulars as to where you might diverge from her (for once I get to see them)?

Also, what do you think of the 'Frissage' method?

Thank you friend

dobie

gerhard's picture
gerhard

The Frissage method seems like another way to laminate the dough and I sure it gives good results and her success is proof of that.

Where I disagreed with her had to do with the seminar she gave on sugar.  She was talking about boiling syrup and sometimes getting crystallization in a batch, in my opinion the main reason is that her heat source is not big enough.  I do that all the time in 40 lb batches and never have an issue with crystallization but it is cooked on a 80,000 btu stove in a copper kettle, her use of stainless steel pots are probably another contributing factor because the sides of the pot will be quite cool.  The other thing they where discussing spinning sugar and they where making thin strands discussing why you had to do it with a little bit of speed and they thought it helped the syrup dry, in my opinion by using a quick flick of the wrist they are creating thinner longer strands of sugar that cool more quickly, the syrup will be as dry as it will ever get the moment they remove the pot from the heat source after that the moisture in the environment will be absorbed the sugar.  Anyway they are small points and for most people of little consequence but I work with sugar daily so it makes a difference to me.

Gerhard

dobie's picture
dobie

Thank you Gerhard

Very interesting stuff to someone (like myself) who doesn't play with sugar much.

The only thing I remember about crystalization is that to avoid it, add some fructose to the sucrose. A little honey or corn syrup as I recall. But that's not from experience, just from reading recipes.

dobie

Reynard's picture
Reynard

Mustn't look at such stuff when I've got the munchies...

Spinach, pine nut and parmesan makes a good quiche :-) Must try making pork pies... They're on my baking bucket list, but I never seem to get round to them...

embth's picture
embth

Good morning Gordon,  Can you tell me about the filling in a Devon pasty?  I make lots of food in pockets (pasties, calzoni, etc) for the family's winter sports enthusiasts.  Nice to have a full meal that is easy to carry in a anorak pocket.   Always on the look-out for new filling ideas.   Thanks!  Embth

drogon's picture
drogon

The traditional filling used to be savoury one side and sweet the other (e.g. apple) ... However now most Devon & Cornish pasties are savoury and made from beef skirt which I cut into cubes, along with potato, onions and turnip. Generous salt & pepper then I add a knob of butter on-top to help it on its way. They're assembled raw and cooked (200°C for 22 minutes then I rotate the trays and another 22 minutes then down to 150 for a final 22 minutes. (Not sure why I use 22 minutes - it might have been that that's what my timer was set to the first time I made them and its stuck).

-Gordon

embth's picture
embth

Thank you for your reply.  So the Devon pasty is similar to a Cornish.  I make U.P. type pasties….a Cornish which has been adapted to the Upper Michigan Peninsula, another area where men went down into mines and carried their lunches.   Rutabaga is more available than turnip, so that is the dominant vegetable, along with potatoes, beef (or pork), carrot.  The two sided pasty is an interesting idea…..a meal and dessert that would fit in your pocket.   I pre-cook my meat/vegetable filling so the baking is just to cook the pastry shell.  I can imagine folding a two sided pasty with two thirds of it the meal and a smaller apple pie section….looking a bit like a "fendu" loaf.

gerhard's picture
gerhard

in the fields around Exeter Ontario but when they are packaged and sold they are called rutabagas.  I asked a farmer what the difference was between a rutabaga and a turnip and he said about a dollar.  I am sure there is a real difference between the two plants but around here the word seems interchangeable. My brother and I travelled through the U.P. in early October and stopped for a pasty and could see the box of rutabagas under the table from Verie Fine Foods is in the town I live in.  So we drove for 8 hours to eat turnip grown about 5 minutes from our house.

Gerhard

dobie's picture
dobie

Reynard, embth, Gordon and Jon

Thanks for all the explainations. Fascinating.

I will definitely be trying my hand at a Chutney, an Ale pie and some gravadlax at some point this year. They are on the list.

I think I'll leave the haggis behind tho.

Bun fight makes sense, but I never would have guessed it.

Thanks again, all.

dobie

Reynard's picture
Reynard

I make all sorts; jams, jellies, marmalades, fruit butters, bread-and-butter pickles, chutneys preserved garlic, cured fish... Though chutneys are my favourites, and I've won prizes for them at local produce shows. I made a lovely cranberry chutney last week from some cranberries I bought on clearance after Christmas and the last of my bramley apples. 

My ingredients are either stuff I grow in my own garden, things I get from my lovely retired farmer neighbour or things I buy on clearance.

I do the grocery shopping for mum and me and for an elderly neighbour. Yes, the way I shop means giving up a Sunday every three weeks or so (or an evening during the week), but it pays, as I can get meat and fish at around a quarter of the ticket price and fresh fruit and veg at a tenth of the ticket price. Yes, it can be a bun fight, and yes, it's unpredictable, but working with a freezer and a large fridge, it means I can cook from scratch using premium ingredients for pennies. And I just love the variety. For everyday staples, I do use a list, btw, or I get carried away as much as the next person LOL ;-)

Take tonight, for instance... Roast butternut, swede and garlic soup, followed by pork goulash on jacket potatoes with peas and carrots, and a wedge of lemon tart for afters...

Soup: The butternut squash was 14p, the swede 5p, the garlic and onions in there were also reduced. The whole pot of soup cost me around 30p to make, and it's lasted 4 days. Finished it tonight - so let's say 8p for soup tonight.

Main: I paid £1 for a 700g tray of pork shoulder steaks. I  only used 3/4 of the pork and froze the remainder. So 75p for the meat and around 25p for onions and seasonings etc. Add 10p for the potatoes and 15p for the carrots and peas, so main course a total of £1.25, but there is still enough meat left over for another meal.

Dessert: The lemon tart was bought, but it was reduced from £4 to 40p. Even with the best will in the world, I can't make it for that, and there were 8 portions on the tart. So that's 5p a portion...

Factoring for leftovers (which isn't a bad thing) I fed two people this evening for less than 50p a head - that's what, about 75 cents for you folks over the other side of the pond.

Eating out or buying ready made just doesn't do it for me. I do stress, it's not a budget thing for me as such, buying from the clearance bins, but I've noticed that the people who really could do with buying reduced price food don't. I'll admit it's not as convenient, but it's sure as hell better than the ready made / instant stuff. OK, I do eat the odd ready meal / burger / instant noodles etc when I'm out and about or pressed for time but it's more the exception rather than the rule.

Mum taught me to cook as soon as I was old enough to stir a bowl of pancake batter, and I've been doing stuff ever since. I love food, and I get a great deal of pleasure from selecting ingredients, to cooking them and then putting a satisfying meal on the table in the evenings.

Oh yeah, and I'll finish off with the beautiful steak and ale pie I made earlier in the week and the gravadlax I made over the holidays :-)

 

gerhard's picture
gerhard

That is pretty fancy decorative work on the pie, the salmon looks good but I don't think I could convince Cherie to eat raw cured anything, I love parma ham but she won't eat it.  I should do a cedar plank salmon sometime again.

Gerhard

Reynard's picture
Reynard

Crimp my pie crusts - or decorate them, but I was feeling artistic :-) 

The pie dish I use has a fluted edge - all I really need to do it dampen the glass and press the pastry against it to form a seal, but a crimp does look so attractive. A forked edge also looks good, and both are equally easy to do :-)

I love cured and smoked just about anything. When it comes to ham, I particularly like Black Forest ham and Jamon Iberico. So, I have to admit, do my cats...  On the upsides, if the missus won't eat it, there's more for you ;-)

dobie's picture
dobie

Reynard

I am going to try and be brief, but I enjoyed all the details.

I know I could google these questions (but I would prefer to hear the particulars from yourself and others (and it adds to the TFL library), so here they are:

I have had precious few chutneys in my day and they have been all over the map flavorwise. I am curious as to what the basic definition would be and the goals strived for?

What is meant by a 'bum fight'?

Also, what is 'swede'? I've heard of it many times (in UK reference), but don't know what it is. Maybe chard or kale?

Finally, what is 'ale pie' (other than the obvious), and if so, how so (eggs and cream I would guess)? And what is 'gravadlax'?

I will add more later, but I must do some time management now.

Thanks,

dobie

drogon's picture
drogon

it's a buN fight... Buns - soft round things made of bread type dough...  see e.g. http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=bun+fight and others...

Swede ... Ahhh forget independence, this is the great Scottish/English debate...

It's a Swedish Turnip.

However... In Scotland (where I'm from), a Turnip is a large root vegetable, orange flesh with a cream and purple skin. It's large enough to be used to carve a turnip lantern out of - traditionally used for Halloween... "tumshie heid" (although that's also an insult - turnip for brains)

A swede is a small root vegetable, similar is appearance, but ... well... small.

In England they foolishly reverse the meanings.

However - haggis neeps & tatties is a traditional Scottish dish, and they call it that in Engurland too (neep = turnip, tattie = potato) so it's all just bonkers. Bit of a bun fight, really. Good job they're not using manglewurzels.

I'm just about to chop up some turnip & spuds for my pasties. (actually, I've got a machine to chop it for me - lazy me)

Ale pie - a meat pie with ale/beer as part of the gravy. As for the others - well if you use google, it will save us doing it for you ;-)

-Gordon

Jon OBrien's picture
Jon OBrien

.

Reynard's picture
Reynard

Answered your questions pretty satisfactorily in my absence, Dobie, but I'll give you my spin :-)

A bun fight is something of a free-for-all. Those of us who do the clearance bins regularly call it the "smash and grab" LOL.

Chutneys... Well a lot depends on personal taste, tbh. Me, I like my chutneys fruity and sweet-sour with a hint of heat and spice. I use a lot of stone fruit (apricots and plums) because I grow them myself, likewise bramley apples. Other fruit and veg I use are tomatoes, beetroot, pineapple, mango and onions. I avoid sharp fruits e.g. gooseberry / sour cherry as the end result can be too sour. The chutneys I make are equally at home alongside a piece of cheese as alongside things like ham and sausages. Recipe-wise, most of mine come from books by Marguerite Patten, the Womens Institute and Good Housekeeping.

The basic definition of a chutney is fruit cooked in vinegar and sugar (the preserving agents) until well thickened. Similar to a relish, but cooked down much further, which is what gives it the keeping qualities. Though here they don't last long enough to keep. After they've been matured, that is ;-)

Another name for a swede is "rutabaga" :-) It is one of the many members of the brassica family :-) We south of the border in the uk call it a swede. A turnip is a smaller root with white skin and white flesh. I guess it's the old thing of scots and english being contrary ;-)

Steak and Ale pie is one of the classics in the pie world, where you use beer to braise the meat as opposed to stock before encasing both meat and gravy in pastry. :-) However, my mother, who is of Belgian extraction, says its traditional in belgium to braise beef in beer to make stew. And gravadlax is cured salmon scandinavian style in a mix of salt, sugar, pepper and dill.

HTH :-)

embth's picture
embth

I read a bit of history/legend which told of one Spring in late 18th century London when a huge mob of people overran a bakery that offered Hot Cross Buns.  The terrified baker was forced to close the shop.   Perhaps that story is the origin of the expression "bun fight"?   

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

the condiments around here including pickles, jams, chutney, mustard, ketchup, vinegar etc.  Jamie Oliver's recipe for ketchup is horrible by the way and I usually like his cooking.  Orange mango chutney is my favorite.  I love it in chicken salad for sandwiches.  I make all the charcuterie , fresh sausages, smoked meats too.  Also grow our own salad greens and tomatoes for half the year.

When the grocery ads come out on Wednesday here in Phoenix, there are 7 chains trying to get business and the reason why we have the lowest grocery prices around.  I have to figure out what I have to buy and where I have to buy it.  This week split chicken breast for 87 cents a pound, chicken thighs for 47 cents a pound and chicken leg quarters 37 cents a pound, Pork Chops and pork shoulder for 99 cents a pound, gold potatoes, carrots, Sweeds (Sweet Potato), pineapples, delicious apples, bananas are 33 cents a pound.  Green peppers, oranges, cilantro, cucumbers, green onions 4 for 99 cents, avocados 5 for 99 cents.  

We eat at home almost all the time.  The food out is pretty much crap or way over priced - we are spoiled and tired of being disappointed with restaurant fare.  There is a Mexican hole in the wall we like very much that has authentic food where you can get 3 tongue tacos and a long neck for $3.....used to be a buck 30 years ago though at the same place ......same tongue too.   All you need is a big freezer.  We don't throw any food away.  How pwople manage to toss 30% of their food worldwide is beyond me.  We make stock out of all the bones (chicken, beef , pork and fish) before they go in the trash.  The stock you can buy is just horrible and expensive.

Like you I started cooking very early and have been at it for more than 50 years.  After being in the food distribution business most of my working career, it is amazing what you can pick up if you work at it when it comes it making food.

But I am usually only cooking for 2 and am retired with all the time and inclination in the world to do these things.  The one thing it takes besides willingness is time to do these thing.  The one thing most folks don't have is time and the 2nd thing they don't have is willingness:-)  The retail food world is made for them as it should be - here is an example.

I was reading the food and dining section of the local paper today and they had an Enchilada Salad featured.  The first ingredient listed is a light frozen enchilada dinner like Lean Cuisine that you cook in the microwave as directed on the package - sounds lovely!  But you can get one at my place that features home made enchiladas with home made sauce and the salad veggies will be straight from the garden to plate in 5 minutes!

Someday they will all be retired and have the time to do better food wise if they are so inclined.  Until then they will eat stuff that could kill them before they can retire!

I'm guessing we and many other folks on TFL eat way better than anyone else they know.....

Reynard's picture
Reynard

My own mustard. While I like mustard, I simply don't eat enough of it to make making it worthwhile. I found this lovely Polish mustard in my local supermarket which really floats my boat, and they do a nice own-brand Dijon too... Same with ketchup - I prefer chutney. Other than that, well I'm a tea and toast person in the mornings, so that's where the jams and fruit butters come in :-)

Going on what you say, food prices in your neck of the woods are way cheaper than they are here DBM - you're paying full price what I'm paying reduced for most of that... Pork shoulder is around £5 a kilo here, never mind the rest.

Pretty well much the only time I eat out is if I go for a burger LOL... Like you, I much prefer to cook at home. And yes, I make my own stock too. I bought a large (whole) duck over the holidays - reduced, of course LOL - but I had to bone it out, else it wouldn't fit in the freezer. The bones went for stock, which then went to make a wonderful asparagus soup :-D I buy meat trimmings to make soup too. A lot of soup gets eaten here - nothing beats a nice comforting bowl served with bread and butter :-)

Mum and I rarely throw any food away. We work with a large freezer and an extra fridge in the utility room, and it keeps stuff fine. If we do have food waste (mainly vegetable peelings and such like), it either gets composted or saved for a friend's chickens. When I watch series like "Eat Well for Less" and "Hugh's War on Waste", it freaks me out how much perfectly good food is thrown away... Besides, most food will keep for at least a fortnight beyond the "use by" date if properly stored. Things that don't keep well e.g. seafood gets eaten straight away.

Lack of time to prepare food... Well it doesn't take long to whip up an omelette or stick things in the crock pot before heading out. I think it's more down to a "can't be arsed" attitude, the easy availability of too much ready prepared food, and the fact that mums don't seem to teach their kids to cook anymore. I remember how clutzy and clueless my classmates were during school cookery lessons, and that was the best part of two and a half decades ago :-p

I think you're right when you say that us folks on TFL eat much better than Joe Public. :-)

dobie's picture
dobie

Reynard and dbm

Great stuff.

'Hugh's War on Waste', is now on my list.

It's like you guys are writing my story, so I'll leave it at that.

NY prices are very much the same as dbm says they are in AZ. Your veg is a little cheaper. Avacados, 5 for a buck? Wow. Usually a buck each (and more) here. But otherwise, pretty similar.

I agree that willingness plays a large part in poor food choices. I think 'time' is an illusion.

Sorry the posts are sort of crossing over each other.

But I couldn't agree more with all that you both say, and it is largely my practice also. And yes, probably, most TFLians as well.

dobie

dobie's picture
dobie

Reynard

It's quite fine of you to shop for others as well.

The price reductions you can find are amazing. Really nothing like that around here.

The best I can do is to 'cherry pick' the specials from the 7 stores that I can encircle within ten miles, once a week. They all have their strengths and weaknesses, but it balances out pretty well.

I particularly wait for things to come into season when I can get the best quality at the best price as well. Then it's all about canning and freezing and eating madley of the fresh.

The only thing I don't seem to be able to grow enough of in my gardens are tomatoes. There are never any left to can. But I have space and shade issues to contend with.

Typical 'store bought stores' for us are canned tomatoes, canned beans, dried pasta and canned tuna fish. I do cook dried beans fairly often (usually with a bit of chikcen stock), but for a quick meal, canned is fine. I also make a fair amount of pasta, but again, for quick, boxed is fine.

I no longer buy fish sticks. I wait for a good sale on fish and bread my own. So much better, and cheaper too. Same with chicken tenders.

Anytime things are getting old, soup gets made. I will usually freeze a few servings as well. Also, good for quick when needed.

Coffee (for Girl), tea, honey and peanut butter, pretty well rounds out the list of 'prepared' stores. Other than that, it's all pretty much raw fruit and veg and proteins.

Most of my condiments (herbs, spices, mustards and such) are garden grown (mine or my sister's). I don't make ketchup tho, but then, I don't use much either. I do keep a supply of some good, cheap BBQ sauce (Sweet Baby Ray's) that serves as a base to further developments.

To close, back to the economics of all this. As with you, it is for me, not a matter of money, but of health and enjoyment. But I do cringe when I see people paying on 'assistance' for piles of 'convenient' crap.

Politically, I'm not one to tell anyone what to do, but perhaps some education could be valuable. One can eat so much better for so much less.

I periodically will price out meals we make and I am often amazed at how inexpensive they really are. That is money that I can now waste elsewhere ;-). There are so many better ways to waste money than on poor food.

Anyway, thanks for all your thoughts and info.

dobie

Jon OBrien's picture
Jon OBrien

If your stores are anything like ours, it won't be too long before there's no one left who understands the concept of things being in or out of season. Or what 'ripe' means when it comes to fruit. Large tracts of Spain are now under glass and pumping out-of-season produce into Europe by the ship load. The Dutch have been doing it for longer, of course, but don't have as much land or sun. And they're managing to sell the stuff, despite picking and shipping it when it's still solid enough to be considered a blunt instrument. How convenient, we can now rot ripen it at home.

Fish sticks: Ware the language chasm! These are what we call fish sticks (actually, they're crab sticks but fish sticks are equally plastic); we call these fish fingers. Yeah, I know, but chickens don't have goujons and I've never seen a pig wearing a medallion, either.

dobie's picture
dobie

Jon

OK, so I've got my laugh for the day, now all I need is the tear. I don't know which was funnier, but it was sincere LOL.

Maybe you should have saved one for tomorrow.

'Goujons'. A little French dropping, eh? Pork medallions was pretty funny as well.

Anyway, regarding the 'crab' fingers. If that is the same product as over here in the States (and it looks like it), I don't believe there is actually any crab in it. Made from something called (quite generally, I'm sure) 'white fish'. And I believe soy protien is in there as well.

I have a friend who once made a macaroni salad for a picnic where she fork shredded 'that product' and added it to. It must have just been the day (as there is little flavor at all to them), but I ate buckets of the stuff. Couldn't get enough.

Anyway, thanks for the laughs.

dobie

ps - I'm working on the email thing, just not there yet.

Jon OBrien's picture
Jon OBrien

Has 'goujon' not made it across the pond? It may have its origins in France but it's been used over here for a while for deep-fried strips of chicken or fish. What would once have been called 'scraps'.

gerhard's picture
gerhard

I think here they are marketed as chicken fingers and various proprietary names but the official name for them is chicken tenders.

Gerhard

Jon OBrien's picture
Jon OBrien

A chicken couldn't handle a boat.

gerhard's picture
gerhard

I guess I was replying to goujon which I have only heard to refer to chicken, I did not know it also applied to fish strips.  

Staying with chicken the chicken fingers made from the chicken tenders are actually an ok product, not that we buy it, but there are a multitude of products available made from reconstituted mechanically separated chicken, the skin and anything else they can find which I wouldn't touch.

Gerhard

Reynard's picture
Reynard

I believe that the crab sticks are actually made from pollack... As for fish fingers, it's a while since I've eaten those.

Regarding seasonality on fruit and veg, well most things are available all year round here. There are the odd exceptions, like cranberries and nuts with the shell on, but that's pretty few and far between.

Having said that, I do try and buy seasonal (and hence UK-grown) produce if I can, even when buying reduced. I will ignore strawberries at this time of year, as they're absolutely tasteless. I'd much rather have my home made strawberry jam right now, and wait for UK strawberries to come into season - and will actually taste of something. On the other hand, things like brassicas (sprouts, greens, cabbage) are at their best right now, so I eat them at this time of year and am far less likely to buy them in the summer - unless there's very little choice in the reduced bins. Likewise, citrus fruit is at it's best at this time of year - I'm currently chomping my way through a job lot of the best clementines I've had in ages...

As for the ripeness of things... Well I buy the majority of my fruit & veg reduced, and I find that fruit will need at least a week in a warm room to finish ripening properly. Sometimes though, they don't even ripen at all... The other week I had avocados that sat in the fruit bowl for three weeks and I could still have sold them to the military for ammunition... :-p So heaven knows what in-date fruit is like...

Some things I do prefer canned or frozen (peas, sweetcorn, tomatoes) as they've got better flavour and more consistent quality than the fresh. Likewise, other storecupboard goods I have are dried pasta, rice, pearl barley, lentils, dried beans and such like. If you've got things like that knocking about, there's always a good meal to be had :-) Oh yes, and tea. Lots of tea; proper tea (English Breakfast & Earl Grey) plus assorted herbal teas, the majority of which are my own blends made from what grows in the garden. Besides, it means I can get my revenge on the nettles LOL...

IMHO classes on Home Economics (selecting ingredients, buying them, actually cookery and learning where food comes from *should* be on the school curriculum. Maybe I was lucky that I had two years of compulsory Home Ec at school, on top of what my mum taught me. It scares the bejesus out of me when you see kids on telly saying that fish fingers are made of chicken and that milk comes from a bottle. Mind, my erstwhile classmates didn't know how to mash a potato... *shakes head*

dobie's picture
dobie

Reynard

You are right. I took a pack of Imitation Crab out from the bottom of the freezer (yes, that I use for mac salad now and then) and the main ingredients on this package read; Pollack and/or Threadfin Bream, Wheat and Corn Starch, Soy protein and Crab extract.

dobie

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

of crab!  I love those Japanese Fish Cakes with the red or greed skin that are made the same way.  I wonder what extract they have.  I just love them in dashi, Miso or Ramen

Reynard's picture
Reynard

On a documentary - it was an episode of "Mighty Ships" which featured one of those industrial fishing vessels that is almost a floating factory rather than a conventional fishing vessel... Their target species was Alaskan Pollack, and one thing they said about Pollack was that it is not "fishy" and has a neutral flavour which makes it ideal for things like crab sticks and fish burgers for the fast food industry.

I bought Pouting and found it, well... tasteless... Yes, it was very cheap, but I'd rather spend a little bit more and have a piece of fish on my plate that I can actually enjoy... I'd much rather have a nice plaice or megrim...

Suspect crab extract is ultra-concentrated stock made from the shells or something of that ilk.

drogon's picture
drogon

We have a good number at home too - must be a theme :-)

 

however:

> Old cookbooks are such a wonderful culinary history lesson :-)

Also a lesson on thrift - Mrs Beetons toast sandwich...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-15752918

The post war / rationing stuff is somewhat frightening (but that might depend on what country you're in - I don't think the UK had it very easy then - the era of my parents)

-Gordon

embth's picture
embth

is available as a modern re-print of the original often at a very reasonable cost and is a nice addition to a cookbook collection.  Of course, I date myself every time I type the word "book" while younger folks post "links."

In the states, Victory Gardens and rationing of meat, fats, and white flour were promoted as ways to help the war effort.  Multi-grain breads were baked to stretch the housewife's white flour ration.  An old recipe called "War Bread" dating back to 1860's is featured in James Beard's book, "Beard on Bread" and  contains both rolled oats and cornmeal.  During war, white flour was needed to feed armies, which "marched on their stomachs."  In the post-WWII years, shipments of white flour from the USA helped prevent mass starvation of  civilians.

correction: the "war bread' recipe is published in Bernard Clayton's "The Complete Book of Breads."   Both Mr. Beard and Mr. Clayton wrote excellent cookbooks.

 

drogon's picture
drogon

here in the UK, cheap flour imports that we'd been enjoying from the US & Canada slowed down somewhat due to higher import taxes - more or less forcing UK bread producers to use the local flour again - which is nice and tasty and good for cakes & pastries, but somewhat lacking in protein/gluten to make good bread with - one reason (along with a booming population), that the Chorleywood bread process was developed in the early 60's. It boosts gluten strength with high speed, pressure & temperature controlled mixing with the addition of chemical magic....

-Gordon

Reynard's picture
Reynard

Plus paying for Lend & Lease and other wartime and immediately post-war loans, all of which were finally paid off in 2006...

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

had found the process that he later named autolyse in a French Cookbook dated 1290 AD I got researching old cookbooks but isn't easy on the Internet.

http://www.cookbookvillage.com/blogs/cookbook-collecting/5247962-top-10-most-collectible-cookbooks

http://www.oldandvintagecookbooks.co.uk/

http://www.angelfire.com/md3/openhearthcooking/aaCookbookindex.html

 

dobie's picture
dobie

dbm

Thank you for all the great links. They all look very rich. You know I'll be going thru them.

dobie

AlanG's picture
AlanG

Thanks for the link.  Interesting that both Rumford and Calumet baking powders are still available under those brand names in the US!  Of course Gold Medal flour is well known as well.  I agree it will be interesting to see what the recipes look like.

Neuse River Sailor's picture
Neuse River Sailor

Anybody looking for classic cookbooks in digital format - Michigan State University's "Feeding America" project has a large collection of pdf cookbooks at http://digital.lib.msu.edu/projects/cookbooks/html/browse.html

 

 

dobie's picture
dobie

NRSailor

Thank you so much for the incredible link. I will definitely be spending some time there.

Amazing.

dobie

embth's picture
embth

Thank you for posting it.  I read a bit of "Foods of the Foreign-Born in Relation to Health" by Bertha Wood.  It is a manual for social and medical workers whose task is to teach newly arrived European immigrants how to eat well, like proper Americans.  Food history is fascinating stuff.   Embth

Jon OBrien's picture
Jon OBrien

.

embth's picture
embth

The 1922 publication was based on Carnegie funded research, and is an attempt to teach nutritionists and caregivers about the dietary customs of various groups of immigrants.  Mexicans, Greeks, Middle Eastern, Russian, Italians, Hungarians, Jews, etc. are included and there are many traditional recipes.  The profound changes in food availability the immigrants faced, the majority moving from rural lives to urban lives, are stressed.  For the most part, Ms. Woods presents the various cultures in a positive light…she seems a lady ahead of her time.  There are also statements that make the 21st century reader cringe.   It is an interesting window into post WWI American mindset.  But so far, I have not read much about Apple Pie.  : )

dosco's picture
dosco

Have any of you ever seen some of the old-time recipes for drinks made with beer? I have a book about "the history of beer in America" and it has recipes for things like "buttered beer" which are interesting.

 

-Dave