The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

Morning rolls

DEREKLJ's picture

Morning rolls

Hi there,

I would appreciate some help with baking rolls.

After shaping them in to balls and then proved they end up as flat as a pancake.

Is there some sort of special baking tin to keep the shape or does anyone know where I am going wrong ?

Thank you in advance


pmccool's picture

For instance, what is the formula/recipe that you used?  How did you mix and knead the dough?  How did you ferment it, and at what temperatures and for how long?  How did you shape the rolls?  How were they fermented?  How were they baked, including temperature and time?  Are there any pictures you can share?

Answers to those questions will help people arrive at a solid diagnosis for your rolls.


DEREKLJ's picture

8fl oz milk

4fl oz warm water

2oz butter

2 tbls sugar

2tsp dried fast acting yeast

1/2 tsp salt

16oz strong white flour

I melted the butter in to the milk and water then poured it over the sugar, yeast and salt and set aside until it started frothing up.

Then I put 12oz of the flour in to a bowl and poured the liquid over it and gradually added the rest of the flour until the dough was formed, I kneaded the dough by hand for about ten minutes until it was elasticky.

Placed the dough in a clean bowl, covered it, placed in a warm place until doubled in size.

Removed it from the bowl and kneaded again for 10 minutes, rolloed it out and used a pastry cutter to cut circles and rolled the circles in to a ball, placed them on a baking sheet, covered, put back in a warm place until doubled again.

preheated the fan assisted oven to 200c and baked for 10/15 minutes.

I have been to embarrassed to take a photo lol.

Hope this helps


carefreebaker's picture

Did you allow the liquid to cool down enough so not to kill the yeast? 

pmccool's picture

my first guess is that the rolls were allowed to ferment too long after shaping.  You note that they "doubled" and your original post describes the rolls as "flat as a pancake".  Would I be right to guess that they collapsed after being placed in the oven?  

If that is what happened, then the dough had expanded to a point that the bubble walls could no longer keep the gas from leaking out, allowing the whole mass to collapse.  All that means is that they were probably more than doubled.  If they doubled along just one axis, the volume would truly be doubled (2x1x1=2).  If they doubled in two of the three axes, the volume would quadruple (2x2x1=4).  If they doubled in all three axes, the volume would octuple (2x2x2=8).  

Gauging the amount of expansion in a free-standing object without any nearby reference points, as with rolls on a baking sheet, is a challenge.  That's why some bakers gently (very gently!) squeeze the dough to determine how inflated it is.  Others resort to the poke test wherein a moistened or floured fingertip is pressed into the dough.  If the resulting hole refills almost immediately, more fermentation is required.  If it refills all or most of the way but takes a few seconds to do so, it is ready for the oven.  If it does not rebound at all, the dough is overproofed and on the verge of collapse.

If the rolls are collapsing as I have guessed, shorten the fermentation time, or ferment at a cooler temperature.  Let the dough tell you when it is ready, instead of the clock.

Best of luck with your next attempt.


DEREKLJ's picture

Aye, the liquid was kept at 78 degrees

trailrunner's picture

You say "fast acting yeast " . How long did each rise take...bulk and shaped ? I use Active Dry Yeast which takes approx one hour for the bulk rise and one hour for the shaped rise. I have never experienced the collapse of the rolls that you speak of. I bake rolls all the time and shape in a ball and then pat them out like hamburger buns so we can use them as sandwich rolls. 

This is the recipe I use. It is written in cups as it is very old and I have been using it for decades. Hopefully it will give you a great product. 

7c AP unbleached flour

1/4c sugar

1/4 c butter

2 tsp salt

2 c 110 degree water

3 large eggs

Place 4 tsp ADY in the water and a pinch of the sugar. Let set till foamy. Add the softened butter, sugar,salt  and eggs and beat till mixed with a whisk just to combine.  Pour this mix over approx . 6 1/2 c of your out some to use for kneading. Mix roughly and set aside covered for 1 hr to autolyse. Remove from bowl and place on floured board. Knead in the remaining flour and any extra needed to gain a soft pliable non-sticky dough..takes roughly 10 min of kneading. Place in greased bowl covered tightly for 1 hr. Should double. Remove and gently cut to 3 oz rolls and shape in balls. Place on parchment and pat to hamburger bun shape. Let rise one hour. Bake at 350 for 15-20 min till 205-210 interior temp. I glaze with a beaten yolk and sprinkle with sesame seeds. Good Luck. I will link to a pic taken at the end of the bulk rise. I have a lot more pics of the process if you need them. c

Challah photo IMG_6447_zpse8533fbe.jpg

DEREKLJ's picture

Thank you for all the comments I will give it a go and get back to you all with photos of my final master piece lol