Submitted by chiaoapple on May 31, 2007 - 3:17pm
I read in a baking blog that you could use sour milk in making bread – is this correct?
Note: what I mean by sour milk is milk that has gone a bit off, NOT soured milk (which was intentionally made sour by vinegar or lemon).
Does anyone bake with sour milk? If yes, is there a “cut-off” for how sour the milk can be?
Thanks!
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Don't know about yeast bread, but
you can definitely use it to make biscuits!
Susan from San Diego
sour milk
the problem here is that modern pasteurized milk doesn't sour in the true 'old-fashioned' sense. The right souring 'bugs' are killed by the process and it just goes BAD. No, I would not be remotely inclined to do anything with it but pour it down the drain (with apologies to Susan. I'm sure milk that's just starting to turn isn't a real danger. I just let my nose be the judge. I don't know the science, but I bet somebody does.) That's why we sour milk by adding lemon juice or vinegar--we don't have access to the real thing like our grannies did. If you are lucky enough to have raw milk, that would be the ticket, you can certainly use true 'sour' milk in bread, its acidic nature will add flavor and soften the crumb. I used to get raw milk by the gallon from a local farmer, cream top and all, I always had too much milk and often had sour cream and it always ended up in the bread. If you aren't nervous about the 'bad' bug potential it's grand.
sour milk
There appears to be much confusion about this topic on the Internet. The best article I found was this:
http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=581005
Some people on the net were claiming that it is OK to use sour milk as long as it is raw milk, but according to the article above, raw milk is quite dangerous (which is the reason why they invented the pasteurization process in the first place.).
I am no scientist, but what I gathered from reading various articles is that the reason why we get sick from sour or spoiled milk is because of the bacterias and the viruses. But, these organisms all die if you heat up the milk above a certain temperature. See the following article on Wikipedia about pasteurization:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pasteurization#Milk
According to this, the temperature required to kill them all is 145F. The internal temperature of bread in the oven reaches well above that, which would mean that no matter what kind of bacterias or viruses you may have in the milk (raw or pasteurized), they'll all be dead.
From this, I would conclude that you can use sour milk for baking. It does not matter what kind of bacteria was responsible for making it sour, since they'll be all dead by the time the bread comes out of the oven.
This page specifically says that it is OK to use sour milk for baking:
http://www.umext.maine.edu/emergency/9003.htm
sour vs spoiled
I think that's the key. the Maine page says:
>Milk spoils quickly without refrigeration. Throw out spoiled milk. Soured milk may be used in baking.<
Soured is not spoiled. Yogurt and cheese for example, are really just soured (fermented) milk or cream. Spoiled, or 'off' milk is actually starting to decompose, not sour, since the good 'souring' bugs are killed by pasteurization as well as the disease carriers, as you noted, Dyske. I agree that drinking raw milk is certainly taking a risk, and at any rate it's impossible for most people to find.
sour milk
Browndog, that is a rather sweeping statement, Implying there are right and wrong souring 'bugs'. Perhaps you can tell me the names of the right souring 'bugs' and also the names of the wrong 'bugs'.
If you have any trouble in supplying the above, I will tell you what any biology student should know, that all milk fermentation is caused by lacto bacilli. See my earlier post
Truly bad milk?
I wouldn't touch bad milk with a 10 foot (meter?) pole.
Buttermilk and biscuits? Now that would be something else again.
Irish breads
A lot of irish soda breads are made with soured milk. My friends mom is irish, lives there and just keeps one liter on the counter so she can always have "bread milk" as she calls it.
sour milk
I think there is much misinformation about sour milk, Milk, whether pasteurized or raw is soured in exactly the same way by lacto bacilli, which causes the fat to coagulate and the lactic acid environment causes the sour taste. I would be reluctant to drink raw milk because of the increased chance of ingesting harmful pathogens, I would however have no qualms in drinking fermented sour raw milk as the acid environment kills off all other bugs except wild yeast. Yes there is no reason why you cannot bake sourdough bread with naturally soured milk, either pasteurized or raw, as lacto bacilli and wild yeast are already present in the starter. I use naturally fermented pasteurized milk for baking griddle cakes and scones with baking soda as the leavening agent. This method of leavening has been used since the 1800's. Carbon dioxide is produced by the reaction of the acid in the sour milk and the alkali of the Baking soda. It is also used in the leavening of traditional irish soda bread. Baking powder could also be used without the sour milk, but why add two chemicals, which baking powder is, when you only need to add one,
Sour milk is like Gold!
You guys don't know the wonders of sour milk? I grew up on a Ranch and I've had non pasturized and pasturized milk before. I don't remember sour milk being different from either one personally. Sour milk is sour milk. It's good stuff. The only dangerous bacteria that leaves toxins behind after cooking I know of would be the ones that grow slowly over time in canned goods that have been dented to allow a tiny bit of the environment in. That's botulism. Oh and I think Anthrax is a related bacteria, but I'm not sure where it comes from(and it's not interesting enough to me to Google it). You won't find that in milk though. I think it's because the other bacteria outcompete it. Yea the other bacterias get all cooked off and leave a very different flavor. A better flavor! Definitely use sour milk for pancakes! I'm not much of a yeast bread maker, but I've been making pancakes once a week for about 10 years. I get irritated when my wife or other family members throw out the sour milk. I use it from the point at which it starts to smell bad to the point just after it starts to thicken, but I throw it out after that (maybe you could us it longer, that I don't know). Sour milk is much better than soured milk (milk with vinegar)! Oh just be sure to label the milk container with a big black marker or you might find some kid(teenager or younger) trying to put it into your coffee or wasting cereal with it!