My favourite soapbox topic!

In my opinion, the yeast industry in North America is shooting itself in the foot by having too many types of yeast and by different manufacturers not using the same names (or using the same names for different things).

In the brand I buy there is:

Cake (moist) - the traditional live yeast; needs to be dissolved in water

Active dry - the traditional dry yeast; needs to be dissolved usually with a bit of sugar

Instant - contains a bit of yeast enhancer (citric acid, maybe some other stuff?) and is possibly more concentrated than active dry; does not need to be dissolved

Bread Machine - exactly the same as instant in a different package

Rapid Rise - larger amount of yeast enhancers and other packaging changes to the granules. Does not have to be dissolved. Works very fast and is intended for straight doughs that you want to complete within an hour or so. Generally not used by artisan bakers who seek slower, not faster, rise.

The confusing part is that some manufacturers reverse the meaning of "instant" and "rapid rise", and vary on which they call "bread machine". Thus hurting the entire industry IMHO.

sPh

It looks more complicated than I thought. Thanks.

it might be interesting to note that  Hamelman in his Bread book mentions that he uses Instant yeast almost exclusively due to its dependability.

if you're pregnant, you really don't need to worry about sperm count.

thanks for the clarification.  I think I found the phrasing too sublime also.  However, it might possibly be incorrect as well.  After all, if there is greater potency with the Instant Yeast then it is necessary to measure less of it than with the Active Yeast.  After all, one does not want to put more than the required amount of yeast into a recipe. Yes?

countryboy

men...! ;-} --What I mean is, and I do not stand behind the science, lads, is that if you want a baby, you're in the process of making a baby, what difference does it make if there were 10,000 little buggers or 100,000, because you will have the desired result in the end, n'est pas? (Pardon my French...) Essentially yes SDG, one does not need more than enough. Gold star for you.:-) So. If your bread is rising...and you like how it bakes up...does it matter if on some uber-microscopic scale one type of yeast gives you more, er, sperm, than another? I don't believe that the standard yeasts available will give you too much, as such, by virtue of type alone. I can't believe this. You guys. But I did LOVE the part about sublime.

Very interesting topic and questions I've asked myself often. Now, how 'bout this?

This week I picked up a few things for the kitchen and thought it would be handy to have another set of stainless measuring spoons. When I compared the new to the old I saw that these can't possibly be the same measure!

Weight vs Measure

Sure enough, tested using sugar and the digital scale, the new 1/4 tsp holds 1 gram; the old weighs 3 grams!  That means that we are all over the board if we are trusting volume measurements rather than weights. That would affect the action of your yeast a lot more than the small percentage of difference between types of yeast.

So that's why I could taste the baking powder in those dumplings!

I've been wanting to try fresh or 'cake' yeast - but it seems to be obsolete for home bakers. Does anyone know a source?

I normally find it wrapped in foil, 1 1/2" cubes between the eggs and the milk.  Mini Oven

Does anyone have any experience with saving of unused portions of Fleischmans Yeast packets in the frig?  Since I don't use all the packet at one time I am wondering if anyone has any experience with saving of the unused portions in the frig?  My guess is that once I open the packet the rest of it will not be that useful for the next week's baking. Also do you ever buy Fleischman yeast in bulk from KA? Thank you.

countryboy

The only time I ever had an open package of yeast not work was when it got above 38°c or got wet.  I crimp the tops and put a mini clothes pin on them and mine stand in the cupboard.  You can stand them in the fridge as well.  They seem to keep forever.  

I give them the sniff test too just to make sure, they should smell nutty and fresh yeasty,  If a package smells like ammonia or you can't stand the smell, dump it.  Same goes for cake yeast. (Cake yeast when old starts to run out of the package.) Mini Oven

Appreciate the quick and thorough answer on the question. 

countryboy

I use Fleischmans Instant yeast in 1lb. bulk bags.  Once I'm done baking I just fold the top over and place a "Chip Clip" on the seam to seal.  Then I toss in the fridge in back on the top shelf.

TT

To everyone for their time, patience, and comprehensive answers.  Very much appreciated.

countryboy

I use Active Dry yeast.  I'm under the impression that Instant is now preferred, but I bought in bulk and still have lots left.  I keep it in the freezer, not trusting the cupboard or the fridge, and it's lasting for years.

Also, I don't always dissolve the yeast ahead of time.  Sometimes I just throw it in the dry ingredients, like instant.  It hasn't caused me any problems.

And, since I like long ferments, I usually use less yeast than the recipe calls for (unless the recipe is already for long fermentation).  So imprecise measuring spoons don't matter too much to me as far as yeast goes.

But I've often looked at the spoons that also have ml markings and wondered about the "coincidence" that that spoon size should be exactly so many ml, and not a fraction thereof.

Rosalie

Interesting topic, here...I have been pondering the same things lately.  Mainly because there is so much misinformation out there.  I recently took a few books out from the library.  Amy's Bread says that instant yeast has to be "activated" by warm water, which we know isn't true (pain a l'ancienne, anyone?).  And then another book I checked out (I think Ultimate Bread?) said that instant yeast is the same as rapid rise.  However, I know from practice that this, too, is wrong.  Rapid rise yeast raises a straight dough in about half the time of active dry or instant yeast.  Conversely, my own experience has been that instant yeast and active dry act the same in dough, when you're looking at rise times and whatnot.  I do, however, believe that it takes less instant yeast than active dry to raise dough, all other variables being equal.  Of course, I read that in a book (probably BBA), and obviously we can't take the books as gospel, but I just remember to consider the source.

It's annoying that there are so many differing "facts" about yeast, isn't it?

Katie in SC 

Another angle... does anyone have experience with making sourdough starter with active dry vs. rapid yeast?  I just mixed up my first batch ever (yeah!), and after mixing it up, I realized that the recipe called for rapid rise yeast instead of the active dry yeast I used.  My guess is that it won't matter since I won't be using it right away.  Thoughts?

Some people have suggested that Fleischmann's Active Dry Yeast may be kept in the fridge for a whole long time.

My suggestion is that people would be wise to Check carefully on the back for the very fine print that suggests an EXP   date.  I used one just now with an EXP date of Nov 24 and it was very active.  Whereas the one I had in the fridge was a month over the EXP date and v   e    r   y   s  l  o  w   to go off.

Active Dry Yeast does not require sugar to be activated

I use Fleischmann's Active Dry Yeast and have done for many years. I always activate it in water (baby bottle temperature) but don't usually wait til it starts bubbling to check to make sure it's viable. I add a little sugar only if the bread recipe calls for sugar. I would only check for viability if the jar was near the end and the date was close to expiry. Once the jar is opened, I keep the yeast in the fridge.

Generally, I activate the yeast in a small bowl with quarter cup of the babybottle temperature water. I then mix all the other ingredients together in the big mixing bowl and finally add the yeasted water at the end. (Sometimes I withhold the salt until kneading time....)

I have read (but of course, one can't believe everything one reads) that instant yeast is not so good for long slow cool rises - which is what I favour for all our bread. 

This thread, Yeast: Dry vs Rapid Rise, begun Nov 4, 2007 and having many replies, covers many of the same points. Check it out.

Thank you all for the valuable information. I am under the impression that most of you do not care whether they use Active or Instant. I am new to baking and have been using Fleischmann's Bread Machine Yeast (also for Rapid Rise recepies) from Albertson's. I got used to it and was having very good results, when I decided to buy a 1lb. pack of Red Star Active Dry from Costco. Since I started using the active dry my bread has not risen enough even once. With the Fleischmann my bread is ready to bake after about 75min of rising. With the active dry I wait more than 2 hours and still the bread is too dense. How long should I wait with active dry yeast? More then 2 and 1/2 hours? Please share your experience. I also use about 30-50% more of the active dry compared to rapid rise, and initially proof it in warm water for 10 minutes. It seems the yeast takes long to kick in, as the first 15 minutes after the kneading it almost does not rise at all. Then around after 2 hours it stops rising and that's it. I am almost 100% of the time baking pure whole wheat and adding glutten to bond with the yeast. BUt the dry yeast is killing me. Please help. Otherwise I have to discard a pound of active dry yeast. Thanks

dobrinov,

ADY is best activated in water at 105-110°F.  Are you using an instant-read thermometer?

cb

cake yeast is the best to use for the following reasions]

1-most breads need to come out of the mixer between 75 and 80 degrees F

a colder ferment will uesult in the best flavor as a hoter ferment will cause the yeast to ferment faster and leave behind more ETOH resulting in a sour old tastiog bread or even a runned dough

when making danish or other sweet products the dough must not ferment on the bench while the fat is being folded in to the dough also it allows for long frezer life

i made about 4 pounds of danish let the dough set in the frdge ofer night then made the dough up into cheese and other types of indvidual pieces and put them in to the frezzer UNBAKED

THEY WILL LIVE ABOUT TWO MONTHS IN THE FREZZER

you can take out as much as you want and leave them out at a hot room temp about 80 degress for between 2 and 3 hours then bake them and they will be as good as the day them were made

dry yeast does not hold up as well in the frezzer and since it needs hot water to get started your dough comes out of the mixer to hot

also remember that you need 2 times the amount of cake yeast then powderd 1 ounce of dry means 2 ounces of cake

lastly cake yeast is the cheapest thing around.  forget about buying it a the suppermarket.  find a bakery supplyer and most will sell you one block which is 2 pounds of fresh cake yeast for about 2 dollers and if will live in your fridge for about 2 months or so just don't freez it

I'm sorry if this is redundant... I'm new to baking-bread-from-scratch but trying to learn...

I just moved to a rural area in China where they don't sell bread. My husband misses it a lot, so I'm trying to learn to make it. However, what I'm reading on here sounds a bit intimidating. I've baked yeast breads in the states, but I had any ingredient I could want and just did step by step recipe instructions, without trouble. Here, I just have the basics.

 I'm posting some questions in other, more relevant forums, but mine for here is: when I buy yeast here, it comes in a small packet. What kind of yeast is that? And if it's one particular kind (active dry yeast, perhaps?) then do I need to do something special if a recipe calls for a different kind of yeast? I'm pretty sure this is all they sell here - it's meant for steamed buns, "bao zi".

Thanks! 

I guess I didn't realize that active dry yeast was always supposed to be hydrated, until reading it hear.  I have never used instant yeast until a month ago.  I have been baking bread since I was a teenager. 

If a recipe calls for hydrating, and I mix by hand, I do.  If I am mixing bread in a machine, I just dump my active dry yeast on top of the flour.  During the past month I have used instant the same way and I have noticed absolutely NO difference in the breads, whether I hydrate first or not, whether I use instant or active or not. 

I really think bread dough is USUALLY more forgiving than we give it credit for being. 

Why does Instant Yeast have to be mixed with the dry ingredients first before adding the liquid/wet ingredients? Does it always have to be this way? Or can we dissolve the Instant Yeast in water first before mixing with the flour, just like when using Active Dry Yeast?

Thanks.

Rainbowz, big help indeed. Thanks.

I can't say I've ever had a problem with yeast clumpage (I use active dry yeast that I always rehydrate in about 1/4 c water first). As long as the bread is kneaded enough, everything gets interspersed evenly. I've even kneaded in salt after everything else is mixed in and have not had any clumps of salt in the final bread.

Offhand, I can't imagine that anything bad would happen if instant yeast were rehydrated first. In fact, as I recall, Maggie Glezer calls for doing just that in her recipe for Acme's baguettes in "Artisan Baking" in order to reduce the amount of yeast actually going into the preferment.

-Elizabeth

P.S. I have heard that there are people who don't bother rehydrating active dry yeast though and I would be wary of doing that. I would worry about yeast clumps in THAT situation.

What sort of brand of yeast is more quality? Does different brand's yeast effect the taste of breads? It is hard to find fresh or cake yeast. Some people have suggested me to use dry active yeast or instant yeast to subsitute fresh yeast. Which one is better instant yeast better or dry active yeast? If I would see fresh yeast in a recipe, I was told to do a conversion of cake yeast to dry active yeast. I have noticed the portion of dry active yeast is almost half of fresh yeast. I was wondering if the fermented time for dough should be cut down to half as well.

I have never worried about which type of yeast I buy, just so it is in a large bag. If I find it rises faster, I use less, and vice versa. Always remember that recipes are relative, they only indicate what worked for that person, using their ingredients, under their conditions.

Your yeast might be fresher or older, work faster or slower. Your flour might have more or less gluten, it might have a higher or lower moisture content, etc. If your flour sits in a paper bag in the store at 90% humidity, it will have a lot more moisture than here at 7,000 feet, where the RH is 20-30%. When I started milling my own flour, I had to drop my hydration levels from 67% down to 64% just to get the same dough consistency as the dried out store bought flour. I got a chuckle the other day, when I read a post that said you can tell when a loaf of bread is done by sticking a thermometer in it, declaring it is done when it hits 205 degrees. At this altitude water boils at 200 degrees, the only way the bread could ever get to 205 is if you cooked every last drop of water out of it first, leaving a giant dried out crouton. A more accurate description would have been "5-10 degrees under the boiling point at your altitude." Just remember, a recipe only means what worked for them, not necessarily what will work for you.

Ok, here's my measly 2 cents.....if a recipe calls for instant AND has just a little sweetener in it (tbsp or so or even less) I use the same amount of active dry measure for measure and it all works out well.  If the recipe calls for instant AND has a lot of sweetener(s) in it-I will use more active dry.  An example would be if recipe calls for 2 tsp. instant AND has 1/4 cup of sugar or honey or whatever-I will use 2  & 1/2 tsp active dry yeast.  I never (yes, never) rehydrate my active dry yeast (do I hear audible gasps??).  I make sure my liquids (or cooked cereal or whatever) are warm (not hot) before I add my yeast to my dough.  When I use KA mixer I make a slurry of the recipes' oil (fat), liquid, sugar, and some of the flour-I beat that well, add yeast & salt, switch to dough hook and gradually add rest of flour.  If I use bread machine, I add liquids/fats/salt, etc, flour, adding yeast last.  I have a 3/4 lb bag of instant yeast in my freezer (horrors!), but I rarely use it as it seems to taste a tiny bit different to me. 

One of the breadmaking classes I teach is "breadmaking without tears" and it is geared for teaching student how to use machine and how to make dough in machine and bake in oven.  Active dry is always used in those class recipes (last ingredient to be added to machine) and everyone goes home with a wonderful loaf @ end of class time (even the guy who had no machine and showed up with a bowl and spoon).  I stress the warm not hot thing to students because to me, it's one of the most important things for a novice to understand (as in don't kill the yeast before it has a chance to do it's job). 

Hopefully, everyone has been revived by now and there were no fatalities....LOL

Active dry yeast is not popular with professional bakers. One reason is the need to rehydrate in warm water before use. Time is money in commercial settings. But the other, more important issue is that it has a high percentage of dead and damaged yeast cells due to the harsh spray-drying process used in its production. The dead cells release a substance that is detrimental to gluten development, and this tends to result in a sticky, dense product.

Sorry if this has already been covered. I was alerted to this thread by someone visiting my blog entry on Montreal-style bagels. They, like another poster before them, had experienced problems with sticky dough using active dry instead of the instant called for in the formula. As I said to her, there does not seem to me to be any upside to using active dry .

I was leery myself about instant yeast initially. So many of the instant products developed in the last 60 years have meant loss rather than gain in quality. But not in this case! The production process for instant yeast is gentler and far superior. I'm a total convert. Fresh is good, too - especially for longer fermentation times.

Do I need to let the dough rise a 2nd time when I use instant yeast?  I can't seem to get it rise enough to get the bubbly holes that I see in most breads.  Mine seems to turn out usually dense and heavy.

I've read most posts here with varying opinions about one yeast vs another. I have used all three types; fresh, active and instant, all with great succss. I have been baking most of my  life, spent 2 years in Culinary school focusing on baking and owned my own deli bakery for 5 years. Also, I am a third generation professional baker in my family. I used instant yeast exclusively with excellent results in my business.  Understanding how to use all different types of yeast is more important than what type you are using. Generally, for whatever weight of fresh yeast is called for, use 40% active dry and 33% instant. Volume measurements are not accurate for baking period! There are many more issues to address here. I will try to address them one at a time.