The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

Faux, Faux Poilane

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varda's picture
varda

Faux, Faux Poilane

Ever since I saw Lumos' post on her interpretation of Poilane's bread I have been meaning to make it.    But, but, but.... I don't have spelt.   I have to drive for spelt.   I already have 10 bags of flour on my shelves.   There's no room for my son's cereal.     Yesterday I looked at the formula.    Just a bit of spelt.   You could make it without spelt.    I decided to make it without spelt.  

Otherwise I stayed true to Lumos' formula if not method.   I had exactly one day this week where I could bake in my WFO and I didn't want to miss it, so no overnight retard.     And I prefer to stretch and fold on the counter if at all possible so I did that as well.   Even though the hydration of this is 75% which is higher than I have been doing lately, the dough was not particularly wet or sticky and handled very nicely. 

I was on a tight time budget, so I had to build up the fire as fast as I could to get everything going.   Fortunately my wood was dry thanks to my tarp and Eric's put the next load in the oven after baking trick.   and I got the oven up to temperature in just over an hour.    I tried Sylvia's throw flour on the hearth trick to see if I was going to burn the heck out of my bread and the flour burned slowly so I figured I was ok even though the temp read over 700degF.    My cuts opened, my crumb opened.   My starter seems to be fully recovered after its bout of vacation neglect. 

And I would have to say the resulting bread is around the tastiest I've ever made.     Maybe I always think that about my latest effort, but no I'm serious.   This is really delicious.   Thank you Lumos!

Modified formula:

Starter from 9/18

70%

 

 

 

Final

Starter

Total

Percent

KAAP

360

140

500

67%

Rye

90

7

97

13%

WW

150

 

150

20%

Wheatgerm

15

 

16

2%

Malt

10

 

10

 

Water

455

103

558

75%

Salt

13

 

13

1.7%

Starter

250

 

 

20%

 

 

 

1344

 

 

Method:  Mix all but salt.  Autolyze 30 minutes.   Add salt.   Mix in stand mixer for 5 minutes at medium speed.   Bulk ferment for 2.5 hours with 2 counter stretch and folds.   Cut into two and preshape.   Rest for 20 minutes.   Shape into batards.   Proof in couche for 2 hours.   Bake in WFO for 15 minutes with steam, 15 minutes without.  

 

 

Comments

lumos's picture
lumos

My God,  you really made it!  I'm sooooo honoured, Varda. Thank you so much!

Glad you liked the flavour.  Yeah, spelt in that is such a small amount, I'm sure you can easily get away without using it ......though I must admit it does add complexity in flavour, especially in crust, which is the best part of this bread. (Did you enjoy chewing it? )

Your crumb is really beautifu. A sort of crumb you can't really make in a domestic oven, I suppose.

btw, my naming of this bread is faux, too, because it's not my 'interpretation' of Poilane's famous sourdough.   The flavour profile is quite different from real Poilane's, which has much more tang to it and probably has much higher ratio of WW.   My friend and I call it 'faux Poilane' only because my friend stopped buying Poilane's one completely since I made this bread.  Silly naming.....

Actually, the colour of your crumb is much closer to Poilane's sourdough than mine! :P

Another friend of mine loves this with walnuts filling, too.  Maybe next time? ;)

lumos @ over-the-moon

varda's picture
varda

I have baked with spelt and agree that it adds a lot, but I figured I would rather make this now, than wait until I managed to fetch it.   The crust was amazing.   Is that the wheat germ?   And I was trying to make a little joke with my faux, faux, since yours is faux, and I didn't completely follow your directions.    It takes a lot of energy to bake in the WFO but I feel rewarded when I cut in and see the crumb.    You are a more experienced baker than I so you shouldn't be surprised that I follow your lead from time to time.  Thanks so much for your comments.  -Varda

lumos's picture
lumos

The ratio of flours you used in 'faux-faux' is actually quite interesting.  You increased WW and rye by more or less equal amount to make up for absence of spelt.  I've been thinking of increasing them a bit to give a little more oomph! to the original formula, so what you made might as well be similar to what I was hoping to achieve. I might borrow your idea for the ratio.....though I'll probably include spelt. Got to use spelt in every possible recipe to use up my stock quickly enough!!! :p

I might've baked for longer time than you, but I think you're much more accomplished and adventurous baker than I.  Told your I've been a fan of your blog for a long time. ;)

Did love your title very much.  It's just that I didn't want people who haven't had read Poilane to think my formula will give them something similar to their famous sourdough or people who have had Poilane's before to think there's something very wrong with my taste buds because they taste different. ;)

lumos

 

sam's picture
sam

Wow, that looks very nice, varda.   Fantastic open crumb for a bread with a significant amount of whole-grain flour.  And tall!   Most excellent.

 

varda's picture
varda

That's the WFO giving me (and the bread) a boost.   It seems like the best of all worlds with the flavor of whole grains and the texture of refined wheat.  -Varda

wassisname's picture
wassisname

The term "oven spring" suddenly seems inadequate.  And, that crust... yum.  Beautiful bread, Varda!

Marcus

varda's picture
varda

I was happy it came out.   I've had quite a few busts lately.   The less said the better.  -Varda

SylviaH's picture
SylviaH

What a lovely color all around and opened crumb.  I can just taste it.  Looks like your starter is up and going strong and loves that wfo heat. ....great oven spring : ) 

Sylvia

varda's picture
varda

I feel like I'm finally back in business.   Thanks for your comments.   Look forward to seeing what you are baking.  -Varda

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

It really looks yummy! 

David

varda's picture
varda

Faux Faux Poilane isn't such a catchy name.   It was tasty.   Thanks for your comments.  -Varda

breadsong's picture
breadsong

Varda, your bread is simply beautiful. I just can't get over that crumb.
:^) from breadsong

varda's picture
varda

Thanks so much!   -Varda

Mebake's picture
Mebake

Varda, Pictures you've taken of your loaves will never do them justice. You have a winner there! Excellent products! Color of the crust, and crumb, all 5 star in my books.

i own two stones, one is thin square pizza stone, and the other is red fire brick thick stone used as hearth for middle eastern pita ovens.  Finally, I've realized the significance of having a thick stone, as opposed to the thin one, when it comes to oven spring, and slash openings (given that you give ample preheating time to your stone). I won't look back, ever again.

What was the starter fed? was it a white one to begin with?

Truely marvelous result, Varda!

varda's picture
varda

Thanks so much for your kind words.   I agree that the more retained heat in your stone the better the result.   I feed the starter with 95% bread flour (King Arther AP) and 5% whole rye.   I used this one cold out of the refrigerator compensating with warm water for the final dough.   It had been fed 3 days before, fermented on counter for several hours, then refrigerated.   This is my normal process which I had to give up while I was babying my starter back to health.    But this time when I took it out of the refrigerator it was well pitted (indicating proper fermentation) and sufficiently rubbery (instead of slack) to use immediately.   -Varda

Syd's picture
Syd

Beautiful bread, Varda. Great crust colour and I love the way the scoring has opened. Your breads are really looking great. By the way, was that diastatic malt you used there?
Best,
Syd

varda's picture
varda

Hi Syd,   Thanks so much for your comments.   I was confused about the malt powder because it has been sitting in an unmarked bag in the back of my refrigerator for a long time.   The answer is Diastatic.   When I first made bagels a year ago, I tried to find some diastatic malt powder and someone saw my query about sources on this list and offered me some of his.   But I forgot what it was.    Lumos' formula calls for non-diastatic malt powder.    Reading my Hamelman, I see that non-diastatic is for coloring and diastatic is to increase amylase activity.   So I'm wondering if mine is so old that it has lost its amylitic punch, and just helped to get the color you see above.   -Varda

lumos's picture
lumos

I add non-diastatic for a bit of extra flavour/aroma for this bread. Diastatic increases amylase activity, so it can help long fermentation but I find it doesn't add anything to flavour or aroma, while non-diastatic does.   But I'm in short supply of non-diastatic at the moment, so I only using my remaining precious stock for bagels and none to other breads, including faux Poilane.   The difference is not that big, really.  So if you don't have it, you don't need to add it. (though malt syrup can be a good substitute, I think, if you have it instead)

But having said that, using WFO instead of a domestic oven like mine had a huge positive effect on how the bread came out, whether you used diastatic/non-diastatic or none at all may be neglible to over all result.

lumos

varda's picture
varda

Hi Lumos,   Hamelman's formula for bagels calls for diastatic malt powder which is why I happen to have a bag sitting in the back of my refrigerator.   So you think he calls for this because of the overnight retard?    And it adds no flavor?    And you use non-diastatic malt for bagels?    This area is still mysterious to me.   I guess it's the malt syrup (also in Hamelman's bagel recipe) that gives the color.   -Varda

wally's picture
wally

That's a beautiful open crumb you achieved, varda.

Nice bake!
Larry

varda's picture
varda

Larry,   There is a fine line between incineration and getting a good burst of oven spring with the high temps in a WFO.   I was relieved that it came out as it did since I put the loaf in when the oven was extremely hot.   Thanks for your comments.  -Varda

holds99's picture
holds99

Varda,

You did an amazing job. 

Howard

varda's picture
varda

Thanks so much.  -Varda

Barbara Krauss's picture
Barbara Krauss

Congratulations on a very nice product, Varda.  I've had Poilane's bread, and it didn't look nearly as good as yours!

What was the hydration percentage of your starter, please?

varda's picture
varda

Barbara, My starter was at 70%.   I have never tasted a Poilane bread so I have no idea if this is anything like it.    But I certainly appreciate your remarks.   -Varda

ananda's picture
ananda

Very lovely bread indeed Varda,

That loaf has really jumped in your wood-fired oven!

All good wishes

Andy

varda's picture
varda

Thanks so much, Andy.   It seems almost like an accident when things come together and I hope I'll be able to do it again sometime.   -Varda

copyu's picture
copyu

You are both impressive bakers and I wonder if you can help me.

I've been doing pain au levain from Hamelman's "Bread" (p.158) once a week, for many weeks and following the instructions and timings fairly closely. I often get a crumb like Varda's (although even more 'random', sometimes) and the oven spring is always totally amazing. My problem is the lack of 'ears' and 'grigne'...my loaves just seem to explode in the oven from the bottom, upward...I use a 5/8" stone, pre-heated in a gas oven for only 25 minutes because my oven is so tiny...about  14 inches in width.) I try to get my loaves in early, rather than risk "over-proofing'.

They always taste great, but they aren't very photogenic and definitely wouldn't be my first choice if I were choosing loaves from a professional bakery...I've tried the 'Calvel' autolyse...flours and water only, levain and salt later...I've done the 'Bertinet' kneading process with good success and increased the stretch and folds to four times in 80-100 minutes, instead of the two recommended by Hamelman. I've followed Lepard's and Khalid's shaping instructions... I've not tried overnight retarded fermentation, yet, with Hamelman's formula...(Would it help? He recommends not using it for this formula for taste reasons...) I use flours that are as near as you can get in Japan to Hamelman's recommendations....Surprizingly, I don't have this problem with any other breads I bake.

If you can spare your valuable time, I'd be glad to follow your reccomendations. Anyone else who has had similar experiences, please feel free to comment as well!

Thank you everyone,

Adam

varda's picture
varda

If you are getting good spring, in fact an explosion,  that could be caused by the fact that you are putting your loaves in too early, before they are properly proofed.     Perhaps you could go just a big longer in controlled steps and see if this moves you in the direction you would like to go.   So for instance, next time you bake PAL wait 10 more minutes to put the loaf in the oven than you would ordinarily.   If that's good but not good enough, then a few more minutes the next time.  Also, how are you steaming your oven?    I have had terrible trouble with loaves opening properly and getting good grigne (my ears are still uncertain compared to others on the list) mainly because of inadequate steam.   It doesn't sound to me (I'm not the expert by any means) that your problem is caused by underdevelopment of dough so I don't know if you need to do so much stretch and folding.  I think that overnight retard might help only because if you are underproofing you might get more effective proof  time with it.   Another possible cause could be the shaping and scoring itself.   If your shaping is too lax, and/or your scores don't really open the loaf, then you can also have problems with proper expansion.   But I would really start with increasing your proof time on the counter.   In any case, I feel awkward giving this advice because I'm only just starting to figure these things out myself and I hope the more experienced bakers on the site will chime in.   -Varda

lumos's picture
lumos

I'd say 'steam,' too, and also the surface tention.

'Explosion'  of loaf duting baking is probably due to under-proofing, as Varda said, but I've never had a problem of not getting grigne with under-proofed dough, while if over-proofed I can sometimes have the problem. Actually I tend to get a bigger grigne when slightly underproofed,  like this picture.

 

What flour are you using, btw?   If my understanding is correct, AP flour is used in US to bake French style breads as an alternative to  French T55 flour. You can buy more than 20 brands of  real T55 flours in Japan, you know. ;)

lumos

Mebake's picture
Mebake

Hi, Adam!

What Varda, and Lumos said is true. Grigne / slash bloom is also obtained when radiant heat surrounding a proofed loaf is sufficient to cause slash bloom, under ample steam, IF: the heat source radiating from under the loaf is constant and high enough to enable the loaf to expand upwards sooner than later into the baking time. You could do that in your home oven by placing a thick stone on the higher shelf, slightly closer to the top elements, and preheating it for 1 hour, with convection if you have it. What happens, is that the radiant heat from the stone causes the loaf to expand fast upwards (steam escaping +fermentation), thus causing stress on the weak slash points which leads them to crack open. Steam then plays its important role by allowing the flap that has just cracked open to be cooked and will curl backwards at is cooks, thereby exposing the fresh dough beneath to more radiant heat. Steam will then prevent this fresh dough from hardening, which results in continuous bloom and expansion of the slashed dough outwards in a controlled manner. For this to happen, you need not mix your dough too much, as this will not allow the slash to crack easily and form a flap, instead , your whole loaf will expand evenly. As hamelman suggests, mix upto the level where your dough is moderately developed. If, after all these measures, you don't obtain the results you wish, then you'll have to consider buying a new oven. I use Sylvia's Wet towel for steaming nowadays. I just insert a shallow SS dish with a rolled kitchen towel soaked with boilg water into the preheated oven for the last 5 minutes prior to inserting the loaf. This will pre-humidify the oven and will emit instant steam soon as you load the loaf in (which is essential for bloom, as delayed steam causes the slashes to dry out and no flaps will form.)

Hope this helps, Adam!

 

copyu's picture
copyu

Khalid, Varda and lumos,

Your very kind advice is so easy to understand and it will be a cinch to follow your recommendations. Very helpful suggestions, all. I definitely do NOT want to risk going back to over-proofing my loaves, so I will play with the proofing times cautiously, as advised. My shaping on the last loaf was the best I've achieved and the dough texture felt noticeably 'better' to the touch than the previous attempts, so I was quite disappointed that it turned out much like the first efforts.

I've read about the soaked towels, for steaming, but have not yet tried it. I will definitely have a try the next time. Until now, I've used a surplus roasting pan of water for the entire oven pre-heat and a spray bottle on the loaves and oven sides.

All of the advice has been extremely insightful and helpful, so I'm feeling my confidence level rise...now if only the dough will co-operate and rise the way I want, I'll be one happy camper! Thanks very much to all! As always, best wishes,

Adam

lumos's picture
lumos

Hi, Adam,

so I will play with the proofing times cautiously,

Never by watching a clock, needless to say.  Easiest and very reliable way to judge the fementaion is finger-poke test. ;)

Also, if you want to get more upper radiant heat, it may worth baking it on a higher position in the oven.  My oven has five shelf positions and I used to bake at the third (=middle) level, but since I started baking on the second from the top, I get much better grigne for my baguettes.

If you're thinking of buying a new oven like Khalid suggested, there're many new ovens in the market for home bakers of artisan bread; most of them with steam injection system (you can either pre-programme it or can operate manually) and some of them with ceramic/stone lining and/or separate control for upper and lower heating elements. Many of them are table-top type to fit small Japanese kitchen.  Get your wife to google it in Japanese and you'll find loads of them. ;) If your wife doesn't know where to look,  give me PM. I'll give you a list of popular bread ovens in the market. ;)

lumos

 

 

lumos