The Fresh Loaf

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Bread with low gluten flour failed

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dzolotas's picture
dzolotas

Bread with low gluten flour failed

Hi


I live in Greece and I'm making bread for the family once a week, with a mix of 3 flours :


1000 gr. Whole wheat


700 gr. White bread


300 gr. Multi seed


43 gr. Fresh yeast (1 cube from freezer)


1200 gr. water


32 gr. salt


(I prepare a mix from the morning with 300gr water, all the yeast and some flour to make a soup and the afternoon, I start to make bread).


At some point I tried to change 2 of the flours to "organic" and the breads failed horribly. Because I'm a newbie in baking, (I just follow the recipe mostly), after this I've done a search and learn everywhere to find the answer. In a while I learned about proteins and gluten, and when I checked the "organic" flours I found that the proteins are 9.5% - 10% compared to "normal" flours which had 12% - 12.5%


Is this the only reason why my bread failed? Is there any way to make bread with this flour? I must follow a different procedure ? 


My "normal" breads have risen very good, and in the oven they grown even more! The ones with "organic" flour rises well before go to the oven, but then it collapses !!! Disaster.


I tried also to add some Vital wheat gluten (bought from eBay) with a small improvement, but not enough. Anyway I don't like to add "improvements" to my bread.


Any advice will be useful


Dimitris


 

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven


My "normal" breads have risen very good, and in the oven they grown even more! The ones with "organic" flour rises well before go to the oven, but then it collapses !!! Disaster.



It could be that the organic flours are helping the dough ferment faster so that if you're using the same time to let them rise, they are over risen.  Shorten the rising time by at least a half hour to 45 minutes and see if that helps.  Don't let the dough rise so high before baking in the oven, bake sooner.  The weight of the seeds will throw off judgement when you "eye ball" the dough because they can be quite heavy.  


I have had no problems with the same amount of gluten.  But with 70% hydration, you might want to be stretching and folding the dough several times during the bulk rise to get some added support in the dough structure.  Then when you shape the loaves, they have more stability.


No need to add Vital gluten to a yeasted dough for normal fermenting times.  Frozen cubes will take a little bit longer to raise when compared to fresh but that shouldn't be a problem.


Mini


One question... In the recipe   are the mixed seeds a fine flour?  

dzolotas's picture
dzolotas

Thank you very much for the reply and advice.


After the first rise (1 1/2 hour) I deflate the dough, divide it, shape it to 3 loaves of 1150 gr. each and I place them into a large deep pan close one to other (they touch when 2nd rise). I bake without preheating, directly. 


I'll try again with organic changing the rising time as you suggest, and we will see.


The mixed seed flour has a grey color and is fine. Inside there are many seeds of various types.


Thanks again


 

Nickisafoodie's picture
Nickisafoodie

Agree with Mini. Shorten the rising time, and would only let it rise to just under double (say 80% of double) on both the first and second rises.  And preheat the oven for 45 minutes rather than not preheating...


Yasou!

dzolotas's picture
dzolotas

Thank you (Ευχαριστώ)


I will give it another try, thanks to your advices, shortening times as you suggest and reporting back then.


Any relation with Greece Nick ? By the way, at 7 December here we celebrate the St. Nicholas, protector of the sailors, so I'll give you my wishes for everything is best for you. Live and prosper as they say.


Thanks again


Yasou kai sena.


 

intelplatoon's picture
intelplatoon

depending on the coarseness of the mutli seed flour. could it be cutting/damaging the gluten in anyway? maybe adding this after gluten development might help??

dzolotas's picture
dzolotas


Hi,
During the tests I've removed totally the multi-seed flour, with no change in behavior. With the normal flours i had no problem anyway, so I believe the multi-seed it's not a problem. The composition of the multi-seed flour is a fine-grey flour like the bread flour but grey in color, with a variety of seeds inside, not so much really. I don't thing it's a rich multi-seed flour. And the % I use is small, only 300 gr. of a 2000 grams total.
On my next try, I'll leave it out and if I succeed then I try to include it again.


Many thanks for your opinion
Dimitris