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pan de orno

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rcornwall's picture
rcornwall

pan de orno

I was wondering if anyome has a fromula for the Spanish pan de orno? I have found some vague references to it, but not any solid formulas. Please help!


Ryan

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La masa's picture
La masa

Not orno but horno (=oven).


I'm Spanish and never heard of this Pan de Horno before.


Actually, every bread I bake is a "pan de horno" because it comes from an oven :-)


Where did you find your references?

Daisy_A's picture
Daisy_A

Hi Ryan, hi la masa,


Re 'pan de horno' I was wondering if it was a general term, like 'hearth breads' and 'oven breads' in English? I came across it referring to the of baking traditional Spanish artisan breads.


http://www.directoalpaladar.com/cultura-gastronomica/sobre-el-pan-de-horno-tradicional


However as la masa says the phrase refers not to a particular bread but to a way of baking, in this case in a wood fired oven. There is a basic recipe in Spanish related to this page http://www.directoalpaladar.com/ingredientes-y-alimentos/como-hacer-pan


Nevertheless, there is a recipe doing the rounds of American bread sites that claims to be the authentic 'pan de horno' handed over by a panadero/'real' Spanish baker. Like recipes that do the rounds like this and claim great authenticity it's the same formula repeated as given or with small adaptations. You can access it here http://recipes.epicurean.com/recipe/14995/pan-de-horno.html


However if you really want to feast your eyes on a range of Spanish breads, in particular traditional and contemporary artisan breads, go to a site that la masa must surely also know- http://www.lamemoriadelpan.com


Hopefully you can read or translate the Spanish,but if not no importa - the pictures are equally delicious!


Kind regards, Daisy_A

La masa's picture
La masa

in the link you wrote:


http://www.directoalpaladar.com/cultura-gastronomica/sobre-el-pan-de-horno-tradicional


"Sobre el pan de horno tradicional" translates as "About bread baked in a traditional oven", "tradicional" applies to "horno", thus you cannot say it's about "pan de horno".  Not sure whether I made it clear :-)


I cannot say an article with the title "Artisan Walnut Bread" is about artisan walnuts.


The recipe in your second link is just an introductory generic recipe, a straight yeasted dough. Nothing particularly Spanish about it, and the same goes for the recipe in the third link.


Commercial bakeries in Spain (I'm not including artisan bakeries here) use to make bread using a yeasted dough with 'pate fermentee', or old dough. This is known as 'sistema mixto', and is used for most of the bread sold here.


But there are also many local speciality breads, many of them with a long history.


A surprising example is 'Pan Candeal", a very traditional bread from the central and south regions of Spain made with a 45% hydration dough!


http://www.lamemoriadelpan.com is one of the Ibán Yarza's great blogs (the other one is http://tequedasacenar.com ). Ibán founded http://www.elforodelpan.com a few months ago, a Spanish forum about bread. There is a subforum called English spoken (home bakers from around the world welcome)


Give it a try if you are interested in Spanish bread.

Daisy_A's picture
Daisy_A

Hi la masa,


Many thanks for the responses. I'm afraid it was me who wasn't clear - trying to be too diplomatic I think, particularly about the generic recipes ;-). Thanks also for the information on Spanish breads and websites.


I do say I support the view that the phrase 'pan de horno' 'refers not to a particular bread but to a way of baking, in this case in a wood fired oven'. This is the way in which I read it in the Spanish also -  'bread from a traditional oven', as you say. I just used 'wood fired' as it's the more commonly used term on this site.


What I was wondering but didn't express clearly, was whether, in the context of the American internet recipes, that original use had become abstracted,  in a similar way that breads baked on a stone hearth oven can become known as 'hearth breads'.


I tried to support your point that the phrase itself means 'bread from an oven' and I equally support your point that the abstraction of 'pan de horno' to describe a type of bread is as confusing as 'artisan walnuts'. I'll trust your advice that this phrase isn't used in Spain - many thanks for that. However it is abstracted that way on the American sites and I wonder if this (mis)translation is what Ryan remembered when searching for a particular recipe?


As for the recipes being merely generic and not particularly Spanish ¡ya lo se! That's why I say the first recipe is 'basic' and that the second 'claims authenticity', rather than saying it is authentic. I'm always a bit sceptical when such recipes claim to have been handed over by a special, baker, aunt etc., particularly when they are all the same, generic as you say! Maybe they have, but the straining for authenticity is worth questioning. I have the same queer feeling sometimes when I see some adaptations of 'authentically' English breads.


However I also understand that some bakers will come across these types of recipes before the more authentic versions and get bonded to them. My thoughts were that the American recipes are those that Ryan is most likely to be remembering but that someone starting with these might hopefully want to move on to more specialist recipes.


I'm glad to say that I really appreciate that there is a great range of Spanish breads, hence the gentle nudge towards memoria del pan and away from the generic stuff.


Personally, I've had a good time visiting the Spanish sites and signed up to be a member of Madrid tiene miga and have baked a couple of breads from there. In fact my first sourdough was a version of QJones' hogaza integral. Another of my favourite breads and my husband's has been bollos preñaos from the blog comoju via Madrid tiene miga (pictures on this thread).


Thanks for the other site recommendations. It was good to be reminded to look at te quedas a cenar again as I found some interesting new stuff on it. I have tried el foro del pan but didn't feel at home with the list system of logging posts, sadly. I can see the site has been a great success with lot of hits but I prefer the more playful blogging style of Madrid tiene miga. Thanks for the link to the English section of el foro del pan. I prefer to read in Spanish to give my Spanish a workout, but it's good to know there is an international section.


Interesting thing, though, looking at the entries on el foro del pan and Madrid tiene miga is that as well as baking their own national breads, every keen baker seems to also be baking international classics - bakers all over the world wrestling with Borodinsky rye, for example, or recipes from The Handmade Loaf which Ibán himself praises. What I really like about memoria del pan is its commitment to searching out traditional Spanish bakeries and presenting them so beautifully to a wider public. I've really enjoyed reading through those and looking at the gorgeous pictures.


Thanks also for the reference to Pan Candeal. Sounds really interesting. I'm not sure I've come across it. You say it is from the South. I lived in Andalucia for six months in Granada. Is it part of Andalucian tradition? If so I may have encountered it without necessarily knowing the name.


Kind regards, Daisy_A

La masa's picture
La masa

I'm amazed by your knowledge on Spanish bread and websites!


Your bollos preñaos (an Asturian classic) look gorgeous.


Pan candeal is more a kind of dough than a kind of bread. It's made in Castilla, Extremadura and some parts of Andalucía. It's also known as "pan bregado", which can be loosely translated as "heavily worked bread". The bread made with this dough has a shiny crust and a very white crumb, with tiny and uniform bubbles. I tried it a couple of times without much success, you need the right flour besides the right technique.You cannot really knead a dough this stiff, so a rolling pin is used. Commercial bakeries pass the dough through a "refinadora", which is basically the same thing: two rolling cilinders. The bread is slashed _before_ proofing.


A recipe (in Spanish) and a picture of a bread in this class here


This is a "pan de picos" from Extremadura, made with the same dough:


Daisy_A's picture
Daisy_A

Hi la masa,


First things first, congratulations on Spain winning the World Cup!


Thanks for your kind comments on the bollos preñaos. We really enjoyed these. I read on Madrid tiene miga that they are popular for picnics. I can see why. My husband took some to London with him for a conference and they stood up much better on a crowded train than traditional sandwiches! The only thing I would try next time is an egg wash. I had some egg yolk set aside from a previous bake but it looked a bit too jelly-like so I brushed with butter. They did taste good though as we were able to get a good chorizo!


As regards the websites, I teach European Cultural Studies so I am really interested in Spanish cultures. I went onto the Spanish sites as soon as they were flagged up on TFL. Where I can I try to read texts, including recipes, in Spanish because I do think things are lost in translation. I have particularly enjoyed the way in which Madrid tiene miga and La memeria del pan write so descriptively about the cultures of bread making. I particularly enjoyed the current article about Anna Bellasolà on La memoria del pan.


Thank you also for the further information you give here on Spanish breads. The 'pan de picos' looks really great - many thanks for the picture. I can see how well the low hydration dough takes the shaping. An English friend of mine who now lives in Murcia used to live in Extremadura. He really enjoyed all of the local breads.


Thanks also for the link to further information on 'pan candeal'.  I read that 'candeal' is also a type of flour, would that be right? Thanks also for directing me to the recipes section of el foro del pan. I couldn't work out from the front board where the best place to start would be but that would probably be a good one!


With kind regards,  Daisy_A


 


 

pattycakes's picture
pattycakes

Here in the Southwest, Pueblo Indians bake bread in the horno, which is made of adobe and plastered with mud, much like any kind of hearth bread baked in a heat-retaining oven heated with wood.


The Spanish settlers took many of the food traditions of the local tribes, and likewise contributed their own traditions, so we find foods that are shared by both cultures. I believe this bread would certainly be one of them, but in current time the tradition is continued by Pueblo women, who often sell their bread by the roadside in stands or on the plaza or at fairs or pow-wows. It's a plain white bread made in a boule shape. It's rarely to my taste, being neither long-risen nor usually fresh. No disparagement intended, it's just the way it seems to be.


Patricia