The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

Miche, Pointe-à–Callière - Not quite

jennyloh's picture

Miche, Pointe-à–Callière - Not quite

Somehow,  my miche was NOT quite a miche,  as it had a darker brown.  I wonder if my flour has a mixed of rye,  it turns my bread dark brown.  I went into the website - Aurora - Weizen Vollkornmehl.  But there was no indication of rye mix,  it just indicated whole grain whole wheat.  I guess it has more bran than other whole wheat flour?

My bread cracked up as well,  I guess because I baked it cold,  and its suppose to flat out,  but I put it into a claypot?

Perhaps someone can enlighten me?


The crumbs were denser than I like.  Somehow, most of my whole wheat breads turn out like that,  I've changed my technique to stretch and fold,  the white breads turn out very very well,  but not whole wheat.  Why?  Do I have to do more stretch and fold?  



Last question:  We seldom eat wholemeal bread.  What does wholemeal bread goes well with besides cheese?


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Mebake's picture

It doesn't look so bad from here, though  you can't really tell unless you have a bite. Wholegrains flours need soaking, which will help soften bran, and develop gluten, and release sugars through enzymes.

Furthermore, wholegrain breads ferment faster than white breads, due to the presence of the enzymes.

I find your loaf appealing!


jennyloh's picture

The taste was a little sour but it'll be better after 24 hours.  I did autolyse for 30 minutes,  I guess I should have soaked it longer up to 60 minutes.  I'll bear that in mind. thanks.

Jw's picture

I think it goes well with certain fish as well.

Your "problem" w ith whole wheat bread: maybe mixing the flour helps. My 100% whole wheat is also always to thick. Having longer rising periods does sometimes help, but it doesn't always match my own schedule.

Also: I try to experiment with the various options (eg. in waiting times, mixture etc).

The bread looks fine on the pictures....



ananda's picture

Hi Jenny,

Largely I agree with mebake's comments; although I note you said you used autolyse technique anyway.   This is essential with wholegrain to my methods now.

Anyway, I think you were heading down this line of thought in your post?   To me the dough is under-developed.   The crumb seems quite crumbly, and the bursting you are seeking an explanation for: the lack of development in the dough may well explain it.

I know a lot of TFL experts don't go in for heavy mixing, and prefer the S&F route.   I don't use a mixer at home for anything except small amounts of super wet ciabatta dough.   But I do like to ensure the dough is properly developed one way or another.   I think this dough needed more work input on your part if you were to have achieved the more open crumb you were seeking.   Also, you may want to consider the hydration level in conjunction with levels of development?

Still, it looks like a mighty tasty loaf to me!

All good wishes


jennyloh's picture

JW, Andy - I think both of you were right.  Come to think of it,  I might have not developed the gluten well at the beginning.  Unlike white flour,  I should have given the dough a good "massage"..... Even with the S&F,  I probably didn't do it well,  as I was using a wooden spoon with only 30 strokes or so.  That's probably not good enough for a whole wheat flour,  esp mine that is full grain. 

As for the taste,  being one who is brought up with only white and sweet asian bread,  I must say,  whole wheat, rye is an acquired taste. I'm still acquiring it. And JW - fish sounds like a splendid idea. 

Thanks both for the comments & ideas.

DonD's picture

Hi Jenny,

From the photos, your bread looks like it is all whole wheat. Did you add any AP Flour?

The recipe calls for a high extraction flour which is about 75% extraction from whole wheat flour. I recently made a Pointe a Calliere Miche using a T80 Flour from Quebec which is a high extraction flour that Hamelman was referring to and although the crumb was denser than a white flour loaf, it was still fairly soft and relatively airy and the taste was super especially if you slice and toast it. If you are looking for an open crumb with large holes you may want to add a little instant yeast to boost the fermentation. I would add 1/4 tsp instant yeast for a 500 g flour recipe. Eric Kayser has a miche called Tourte de Meule that is similar to the Miche Pointe a Calliere but it uses liquid levain with a little bit of yeast so the crumb is quite airy and soft.


jennyloh's picture

Hi Don - yes,  I used whole wheat.  Hamelman did mention in his book that one could use 10% of bread flour and 90% of whole wheat.  That's what I did.  But somehow, this whole wheat is much darker (German Flour),  compared to others that I've used before like Gold Medal,  which is much lighter whole wheat.  Unfortunately,  I'm not able to find high extraction flour here, not yet at least.  I could have increased % of bread flour instead.

Your idea of using yeast could have probably helped.  I'll keep that in mind if I want to hasten the time.  I could have been more patient as well with the dough,  as I did put in the fridge for about 4-5 hours,  and 1 hour at room temperature for the final proof,  which I think didn't allow the dough to proof enough. 

One thing I must add,  the bread may be dense,  but it is soft on the inside.  Taste is a little strong,  and a little bitter.  This seems like a strong whole wheat flour.  Didn't even realise there's different types of whole wheat flour.

I'm still at the experimenting stage of whole wheat,  saw many beautiful loaves made by others with open crumbs.  I guess I have to be even more patient with whole wheat,  patience had never been my forte....but well,  to get good breads,  patience is required.

Thanks Don.