The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

leslieruf's blog

leslieruf's picture

Came across this bread on Instagram posted by "fullproofbaking" - Milk & butter oat porridge sourdough.  I have attempted to follow her recipe, scaling it to make two loaves.  I tried to keep bakers percent as close as possible. This was baked on 31st December 2018.

29/12/18:  Refresh starter and convert offshoot to 100% hydration


8 am build levain – I needed 129 g 100% hydration

8:15 am Toasted 76 g chopped whole rolled oats (Kirsten used quick oats) with 21 g butter, adding 165 g whole milk and gently cooking.  Removed from heat and added 63.5 g ice.  This cooled it and thinned the consistency to a manageable level as porridge was very thick.  (Next time I will just add water if preparing in advance). Set aside until needed.

13:15 pm Autolyse  for 2 hours (A little shorter than Kirsten’s as I am wary of long autolyse with the flours here)

Bread flour 559 g (78%)

AP flour 90 g (12.5%)  

54 g rye flour home milled (7.5%)  

gluten flour 14 g (2%)

583 g water (81.4%)

15:15 pm Mix final dough – added 129 g levain then did 100 SLAFs before adding 14g (2%) salt and then 158 g cooled porridge.  (I froze the remaining porridge and used it in the next bake) and did another 100 SLAFs to incorporate.  Dough was very soft.

16:15 pm one set of stretch and folds

17:00 pm As per instruction – gently stretched and laminated dough.

17:45 pm One set of stretch and folds

18:30 pm One final set of stretch and folds. 

I divided the dough at this point then left until it was about 50 – 75% increased in volume. This was about 1.5 hours.  The dough was shaped and brushed with egg wash.  One loaf was rolled in rolled oats then placed in banneton.  The other loaf was rolled in oat bran.  Both were left at room temperature for 30 minutes before retarding overnight.  Baked in the morning in DO at 240 deg C  for 15 minutes lid on and 15 minutes lid off with convection. 

Crumb shot.


We loved this bread.  Crust is soft and flavour is delicate but very very nice.  Crumb is nice but dough spread more than I wanted.

10/01/19  Attempt no. 2

The plan was to reduce hydration, try and build more strength, no lamination.  This time I made only one loaf, same formula and method except about I used all bread flour, did about 30 more SLAPs and no lamination.  I forgot to engage my brain and forgot to do the egg wash and oat  topping! DARN!! 


Once again it has spread and then I realised I had NOT reduced hydration at all.

 Crumb shot.


Well I will have to try again and I have already edited formula to give a lower hydration – as this is well over 84% hydration (if I calculated correctly) if you include the porridge liquid.

A bit despondent, can’t seem to get enough strength in this dough.  A 1:2:3 made with yeast water and sourdough with 20% rye went much better so maybe it isn’t my technique… will keep trying

Happy baking all


leslieruf's picture

What recipe to make? Ihave been dithering for days. so decided to make 2 sorts and see what I end up.  Sorry Abe, might try your suggestion another tme.

Crusty Rolls

320 g flour 

3/4 tspn yeast

1 tspn salt

283 g water. 

Mixed it all up then did slap and folds, but it was a dreadful dough. reread recipe from web - its a no knead recipe, duh! I added about extra 60 g flour, did about 100 Slafs, rested 10 minutes, did a few more, ok it is a bit better now.  Leave to double. did a set of stretch and folds after 30 minutes. Then once it had doubled it tipped out on bench, and as per insteuctions did bunch of s & f. divided dough into 9 approx 70 g balls, proofed and baked at 230° c for 25 minutes.

Really disorganised today, forgot to write timings down so this was pretty hit and miss.  They have baked up ok, tasted ok with soup for dinner. No crumbshot, balance frozen.  Just disappointed in size after baking. Maybe should have proofed longer.

Soft rolls.

268 g flour

30 g wholegrain spelt

18 g dried milk powder - nope, dont have any, leave it out!

50 g sugar (that looks a lot, don’t want sweet dough, 15 g will do)

1 tspn salt

1 tbspn instant yeast

113 g whole milk (used 122g, to make up for no milk powder - my reasoning was a bit off I think)

1 egg

57 g butter. (only had 50 g that was soft so went with that).

Tangzong 14 g flour+ 43 g milk + 43 g water. Cooked then cooled.

All ingredients placed in bowl and using mixer kneaded until window pane.  It took forever.. maybe 25 minutes in my Kenwood chef.

Left to ferment and it was very active. After about 60 minutes I divided into 9 approx 70 g pices and rolled into balls. Proofed maybe 40 minutes, brushed with egg wash and baked at 180° c for 25 minutes

Wow! what a different bake. here they are side by side soft roll and crusty

We haven’t tried one yet, cut it though to see the crumb and will eat later.  They are feather light!

Well I will make this again for sure, next time in a cake form so they touch and go upwards during proof and bake as per recipe.  I didn’t want that this time so will try again.  Taste test will dictate any modifications.  

It is funny doing 2 yeast bakes, it sure was different to SD.



leslieruf's picture

Haven't baked in a while as dealing with family health issues.  Finally ran out of bread so had to bake and I wanted something different.  I liked the bread I baked for 123 community bake so that was my starting point. Pictured loaf is based on 123 but flour mix is:

bread flour 65.5%, Kamut 14.5%, Spelt flour 10% Durum 10% and hydration ended up at 84% approx with 1.8% salt.  Usual 200 slap and folds followed by coil folds 4* 30 minutes apart. preshaped, rested 30 minutes, shaped and left on bench for an hour before retarding over night.  

Really nice light yellow crumb, soft and delicious.

2nd bread was also based on 123 buts different flours and seeds.

Bread flour 65%, Barley flour 10%, Rye flour 10%, durum flour 10% potato flour 10% and 2% salt. Hydration ended up at 89%. Toasted seeds: chia 6%, Quinoa 6% sesame seeds 6%  and ground flax seeds 6% plus 2% yoghurt.

Method as above, incorporating seeds at autolyse. only 30 minutes bench rest before retarding. 

Nice loaf you can really taste the seeds.  Not sure about quinoa though.

Final bake was a straight forward white Yeastwater/sourdough with overall hydration of 80%.

This sprung and bloomed beautifully. really happy with it.

Sorry, time has run out for me today and I have to run.  It was a great overall bake especially after a month of doing no baking.

Bake happy everyone


leslieruf's picture

after last s&f  Recent bakes by Kat and rgreenberg2000 looked so good I had to give this bread a try.  No emmer though and only 1 small loaf.

6:45 am Levain mixed up (a small amount of rye in this)and left at room temperature rising to 25° c

9:15 am Autolyse 

203 g bread flour + 14 g rye + 27 g durum + 27 g wholewheat + 216 g water

13:00 mix final dough - add 54 g levain followed by 100 SLAFs.

Add 4 g salt stretch and fold then 140 SLAFS. 

13:45 pm Tried to do coil folds, very sticky and wet (guess who forgot to hold back some water!) so ended up doing about 12 stretch and folds. Rested a couple of minutes then did my version of laminating.  After 60 & 120 minutes I completed about 10 S & F. Despite the SLAFs, lamination and stretch and folds this dough did not appear very strong.  2 1/4 hours dough had risen about 80% so I shaped, placed in banneton and retarded overnight. Baked at 230°c convection on DO 15 minutes lid on, 15 minutes lid off.  No ear to speak off but crumb is very nice


Bread 2 was Maurizio’s  COuntry loaf with long autolyse and  low% levain.

6:45 am levain mixed 7.5 g refreshed starter + 15 g wholewheat + 15 g bread flour + 30 g water @ 85°F and left on bench to do its thing.

09:30 am Autolyse

28 g wholewheat + 251 g bread flour + 223 g water

12:45 pm Add 42 g levain followed by 100 SLAFs. 6 g salt added and another 130 SLAFs completed.  this was followed at 30 minute intervals by 3 x 6 s&f. Dough left until about 80% increased,

18:25 pm preshape and rest for 30 minutes, shape and retard over night. 

Baked at same time as first loaf in a second DO.

this was very similar to Kat’s loaf and I found both quite wet, slack doughs. a bit disappointed with appearance altho actual was darker than it looks here.


ok, thats alright after all!

I ended up with some refreshed starter left over - can’t throw that away - how much is left? 70 g? ok 123 coming up. Inspiration - recent bakes using whatever is around - so  what flour is around? ok lots of bits

12:00 noon autolyse

143 g bread flour + 36 g spelt + 6 g kamut + 8 g durum + 17 g rye + 210 g water

13:15 pm Mix final dough.  Add 70 g levain + 6 g yoghurt (had a bit of that too) and an additional 8 g water.  after 100 SLAFs added 3.8 g salt thenc ompleted the mix with another 100 SLAFs.   Much nicer dough than the other two!

3 sets of coil folds every 30 minutes. After an hour the dough had risen about 75% so it was preshaped at 4:35 pm and shaped into a. oule at 5 pm.  Added some oat bran to teatowell and retarded in soup bowl overnight in fridge. Baked in DO.

it seemed to deflate a bit when scored, even though it looked good before. Crumb shot

Happy baking all


leslieruf's picture

Yesterday I did the 2nd part of my experiment to see how degree of proof affects the crumb. First part was done using 4 deg C  final proof – here is the link

Now part 2 is a repeat but using a warm over night proof.  Well, warm proof is a bit of a challenge – my proposal was to do it at about 8 deg C.  Forecast overnight temperature was to be 5 deg C, a bit cooler than planned, but inside I though ok, it will be a few degrees warmer.  So here goes.

Method and formula are exactly the same as part 1.  I added an extra 30 g water.  I only made enough dough to do 4 x 400 g loaves as I decided not to do the 120 minute bench proof.  I started 2 hours later in the day so that I would do the shaping and bench proof after dinner when temperatures were dropping. 

So 4 loaves preshaped (actually ended up at 450 g each)  and left for 30 minutes, final shape and bench rest for 0, 30, 60 & 90 minutes.  Kitchen temperature was 21 – 22 deg C throughout.  As I placed shaped dough into my conservatory the temperature was 12 deg C - at the start of the 0 bench proof @ 7:30 pm. By 9 pm it was 11 deg C, 10 pm it was 10 deg C, 2:30 am it was 8 deg C and at 6:15 this morning it was 6 – 7 deg C.  Outside it was a toasty 3.5 deg C!! 

Pre bake photos:

0 bench rest

30 minutes bench rest


60 minutes bench rest (is that overproof? Some degassing when I scored


90 minute bench rest (definite degassing when I scored.)


These were baked side by side in 2 DO at 240 deg C convection for 11 minutes lid on, 12 minutes lid off.  Internal temperature was 208 deg F at least at end.

First set of loaves – 0 bench rest & 30 minutes. Loaves have flattened, spread out a bit but not much in length. Oven spring, ok not too bad


Second set of loaves – 60 minutes & 90 minutes.  Definitely flatter. Loaves have spread lengthways and only a bit of oven spring. 

 I also made up a small batch (same formula) to see how different the oven spring/crumb would be if I did 60 & 90 minute bench proofs, with dough constrained in my small bannetons, then overnight retard in the fridge.  These loaves were 550 grams each.

60 minute bench proof, pre back



90 minutes bench proof, prebake

These are looking much better. They were baked 15 minutes lid on @ 240 deg C and 15 mins lid off.

Now if I compare to the warm proofed ones (the cold proof is about 100 g more dough but still..)

Wow! huge difference in oven spring

Now 90 minutes comparison.  warm proof is definitely flatter

I was sitting across the room and glanced at the kitchen, had to laugh as it is so obvious.

Crumb shots will come as we eat them.

Conclusion so far - don't think I like warm proof overnight, will stick to my cold overnight proof.  Just took the last of part 1 out of freezer (90 minutes) and when comparing size and shape of loaves there is not much difference.  I also realise that my choice of warm proof  spot was a bit dodgy - I don't have a proofer but this was a warmer proof than the fridge, even if the temperature was not ideal to start with, and that is probably why some overproofed, but it has shown me a few things.  Homebakers must often come up with a work around. 

Anyway, love your feedback on this and the other post.  The final crumb shot for part one will pop up shortly.


leslieruf's picture

Objective: To see how the length of bench proof after shaping (before retardation) impacts on crumb. 

 So here is my formula  & method for 2 kg dough (enough for 5 x 400g batards):

Levain:  Refreshed yesterday, final build overnight.
34 g starter + 20 g wheat bran + 160 g water  + 140 g flour 

Today 11 am:  Autolyse 45 minutes
662 g flour + 282 g wholewheat freshly ground + 26 g gluten + 654 g water

11.45 am add levain.  squished dough out and smeared levain over, dimpled it in and folded dough - a bit like laminating.  repeated the folding then did 100 SLAFs. dough came together nicely but I felt it needed a little more water, so after resting it for 5 minutes I patted it out, sprinkled the 20 g salt over it as well as another 20 g water. folded it all up again and did another 110 SLAFs. Dough felt really good and was no longer sticking to everything.  

After 30 minutes I did 5 coil folds, rested 30 minutes and repeated the coil folds.  At this point I got interrupted and the next coil fold was 45 minutes later.   the 4th & final set of coil folds were done 45 minutes later again

About an hour and a quarter later, dough was somewhere in the region of 30-50% risen, surface was domed and here were surface bubbles.  Divided the dough into 5 and preshaped each into an oblong and rolled it up. 

Rested 30 minutes before final shaping.  Decided to try Trevor’s “un named shaping” method which is nice and simple.  I tried to treat each loaf the same. 

These photos are all just before loaves retarded. The first loaf I shaped was left on bench post shaping for 120 minutes

The second loaf was left for 90 minutes

The third loaf for 60 minutes

The 4th loaf for 30 minutes

The 5th and final loaf was shaped and popped straight into the fridge.

All tucked up and ready for sleeping!

Tomorrow morning I will bake them one after the other.  I had hoped for 10 - 11 hour retard but things went really well so they will actually get 14 hours in the fridge before baking.  Fingers crossed that the fridge stays cold enough to hold them.  Just looking at them when I made the photos, I think 2 hours was too long and that 1 hour or even 1.5 hours would be better. 

Just had a quick look at one of loaves, so far so good and fridge temperature is nearly back to 4 degrees C. 

More photos and the actual bake tomorrow


leslieruf's picture

This is not my first baguette, but definitely the best effort.  Used Hamelman’s Baguette with poolish.  I have upped the hydration a bit to 72% and replaced a bit of flour with some soya flour 2% (after reading Abel’s comment I thought why not!) so here we go..
Last night mixed poolish and left overnight.  
156 g flour + 156 g water + 0.3 g instant yeast
Today: Mid morning poolish looking good, mixed final dough ingredients together and added poolish. 

301 g flour + 7 g gluten flour + 9 g soya flour + 9.5 g salt + 1.5g instant yeast.

100 SLAFs, rest for 5 minutes then another 110 SAFs.  Dough was very soft and didn’t feel really smooth until second batch of SLAFs. Final dough temperature 25°C, room temperature  about 22 - 23°c. 

Although Hamelman says do 1 fold after an hour, I decided to do 3 x coil folds 30 minutes apart. I kept to the 2 hour BF though. Dough was definitely poofy and risen.  

So I tipped dough out and divided into 3, supposedly each 275 g  - don’t know where it went but 3 dough balls were only 260 g each! Did a sort of preshape and rested only about 10 minutes.  Final shaping was a bit hit and miss. I wanted to have a quick look at SFBI video but wouldn’t you know it, the internet went down!!! Anyway tried to remember. I think I should have rested dough longer but got there in the end.  Used my couche, covered with wet towel and left to proof.  At the 1 hour mark, I popped the dough in the fridge as I wanted it a bit cooler for scoring.  After about 20 minutes I checked with finger poke which indicated the dough was ready.  Baked 20 minutes with steam at about 430°F.

I know they aren’t perfect but I am reasonably happy with them. The scores didn’t open properly and as you can see, the middle one had a blowout instead.  It’s funny, since doing SLAFs (200 approx) I find I am having much much less trouble with shaping - dough is definitely easier to handle and less sticky.

Next time - same formula I think (baguettes are light as anything), tighter preshape and definitely longer and retard dough longer so scoring is easier.

Will post crumb shot once I cut one, maybe tomorrow.


leslieruf's picture

I am still jet lagged after 2 longhaul flights but we were running out of bread.  so over the weekend I dug my starter out of the refridgerator, refreshed it and then built enough 100% hydration levain for 2 loaves.  I used some bran left over from earlier bakes as well.  My brain isn’t yet upto much so I stuck with the 1:2:3 formula making 1 all white loaf and 1 loaf with 25% rye.  

After 30 minute autolyse I added levain to the rye dough, mixed it a bit then did 100 SLAFs. Dough was quite sticky but came together well enough. At this point I left it to rest and repeated the process on the white dough.  The white dough was very soft but easy to work with. 

Now I went back to the rye dough, added salt with about a tspn extra water and did another 100-110 SLAFs.  Dough much better now, not so sticky and the little extra water helped with the texture.  Left to rest while I repeated the process with the white dough but did not need to add any further water.  

During bulk ferment I did 4 sets of coil folds 30 minutes apart then left dough to did it’s thing.  Once dough was looking a bit poofy, I decided I had to risk it as the jet lag was kicking in again so I preshapped and bench rested for 30 minutes. I tried extra hard with shaping - trying for good structure so dough would hold it shape. Planned on bench rest of at least and hour after shaping but at 45 minutes I hit the wall and needed to go to bed.  so popped both lots into he fridge and baked them early this morning. Preheated oven to 250°C but turned it down to 225° C with convection, 15 mins lid on DO and 15 mins lid off.   Really happy how they came out of the oven.  Cut one for lunch too.

Crumb shot. left hand one is 25% rye.

Happy with the crumb on both. Yes they were both simple loaves but I paid extra attention to several things.

 Maturity of levain - not sure if I understood this right, will reread but the overal levain weight had dropped by 2 grams and it certainly looked good to use.

The number of slap and folds. Last bake I did 300 SLAPs  but felt it was too many so dropped back. I think it is better this time.

Timing of salt addition. Normally I would add salt when I add the levain. This time I did it i. the middle of the SLAPs and I could see the dough tightening up.

Shaping - really keen to get good volume and height and minimize spreading. The white in particular had come out well with nice rounded shoulders. The rye one a little flatter but not too bad.

Final proof - my fridge is colder these days and I think fermentation is slowing a bit to fast. I think the bench rest after shaping before retarding is helping.

So still much to think about, but overall this was a good bake.  It is sooo good to bake again.

Bake happy everyone.




leslieruf's picture


Today was my traditional day out in Zurich with some of my sistersin law. Stadelhofen is where we meetup and luckily both bakeries I wished to visit were within a short distance of each other.  Kat suggested John  Baker and what an amazing shop. Tucked away in a little side street. would love to have been able to actually talk with bakers but they were very busy.  

The bread is made from organic flours and the flour bags are stacked up in the shop! locals can even have their bread delivered by bicycle!  they make 11 different breads and the baguettes looked gorgeous. Dinner tonight we will cut our loaf - ruchbrot!

here is pic of the bike trailers they use for deliveries etc


Then I had to follow up on  kendalm’s suggestion of Luxemburgerli from Sprüngli (it was raining and this shop is right beside the tram station so I couldn’t get a better shot!)


Inside I was confronted with this! 11 different flavours to choose from.....


they are not cheap but oh wow, just divine - our treat for the day - I think I have gone to heaven!!

Next Wednesday we head home and I am looking forward to baking again.  there have been so many interesting posts here - I can’t wait to try some of the ideas.


leslieruf's picture

I decided to repeat my last weekend yeast water/sourdough levain bake.  I had run out of the flour I prefer to used my second choice.  The dough was really wet, although the gluten development was good, it was a really soft dough and I was happy how it baked up.

This weekend I decided to use 50% of that same flour and 50% of my normal flour.  I checked the formula and now see that yes it is a really wet dough!!  50% water (Bakers percent) and 30% yeast water!!!  

Friday night late I made the levain: 9g starter + 42 g flour + 42 g water and left it overnight.  

Also mixed up a yeast water poolish: 60 g flour + 60 g active yeast water.  Left this on bench overnight as well.

Saturday: As I was keeping the microwave at 80 deg F for Maurizio's 50:50 ww bake, I put both levain and poolish in there for a while as both were a bit sluggish.

13:15 autolyse 196g flour mix + 107 g water and 30 g yeast water.

13:40 Add levain and yeast water poolish and mix.  200 slap and folds.  dough has come together beautifully! even though it was wet (but not as wet as last weekend's dough).  Oh darn I have forgotten the salt!  Added salt and did another 30 slap and folds.  

This was followed by 4 sets of 5 coil folds every 30 minutes then left to BF. 

17:00 I suddenly realised it had increased  about 80% so preshaped, rested 20 minutes then shaped and retarded overnight.

Baked this morning in DO preheated to 250 deg C - 15 minutes lid on (dropped temperature to 230 deg C convection)  then 15 minutes lid off.

Blown away by the bloom and oven spring in this 550 g loaf!! 

Crumb shot later, but so excited that I got such a good bake with a high hydration dough!  the loaf is super light too so I can hardly wait to see the crumb. 

I have to rethink soooo much!  



Subscribe to RSS - leslieruf's blog