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Anconas's picture
Anconas

The first month of bread has been refreshing, and tasty :)  Many mistakes and trial and error, fun stuff.

I really wanted to get to sourdough and I'm having success with my starter.  I'm reading books, but TFL is an amazing translation tool for application.

I haven't made that many breads and something about my kitchen accelerates things - my kitchen being me, my ingredients and my environment.  I seem to go from maybe to overproof rather quickly so I worked with that and ignored all recommended time and tried to talk to my bread.  I also skipped the whole follow recipes until you achieve consistency factor and just made changes to get me closer to what I want in bread - sourdough (fermented), baguette and boule for their taste and texture, and grain. 

Still baby steps but SD boules in a dutch oven at least fit the shape of my existing equipment more than baguettes so I'm giving them a run for learning before I tackle SD baguettes.  Held it's shape and I solved the sticking issue in proofing.

 

 

10% whole grain rye - amazing flavor difference.  A new learning curve - the grain texture cuts the gluten strands if worked too much, or that is what it seems like.  I pushed it and I need much more practice on scoring and shaping and proofing - but this is actually a boule isn't it?  A very beginner boule, but actually boule shaped and risen?  On the right track sort of thing?  Crumb is very tasty, rye makes a big difference and I think I can up the hydration and with more experience shaping and proofing, get the more open crumb I like - I like the taste and texture of holes.  I think I found my baseline to bridge from.

SD  starter is 1 week white following dabrownman's "no muss no fuss" refrigerated lower hydration, no waste method with a 3 tier build and over night retard.  That particular post made everything from BBA, FWSY, and Glezer's AB make practical sense for maintenance and baking fitting my schedule.

 

TFL Handbook on Rye inspired me to try a 10% whole grain Rye loaf while still being very new to the whole bread thing.  Glad I did, the final bread tastes much better than anything I've tried before.  It's not dense and not over baked.  Bold I like, but I like blistery and done before over bake and I'm starting to understand my oven.  Holes throughout, no lift offs of dense bottoms, it's not gummy and it tastes great and has a very decent mouth feel (my family cracks up that there are people who understand that I think that is a real important thing :).  The grain tearing factor in the dough - just my inexperience or is there a better route?

I'm giving myself a gold star on the forehead for a kindergarten SD Rye Boule.  The high flour thing with proofing still bugs me, I don't like all the flour on the crust like some may but I like sticking even less. 

 

  grams per pound453.5924       
    300total flour    
110gWarm Water (Well) 70%      
200gPoolish Starter (Gen AP)   39%total weight  
130gFlour, 100g KAF AP, 30g Gen AP 77%      
40gFlour, KAF WW 13%      
30gFlour, Rye 10%      
7gSalt 2%      
           
517g1.14pounds       
           
           
1. Mix Water, WW & Rye Flour, autolyse 30 minutes
2. Add remaining flour and starter, rest 30 minutes.
3. Add salt
4. Slap and Fold to develop strong gluten.
5.  Stretch and Fold once, round out dough, rest 10 minutes - 3 times total
6. Bulk rise 2-4 hours, or until the dough has increased 1.5 times it's original size.   Took 1 hour 15 minutes.
7. Shape and tension pull, rest 10 minutes
8. Re-do tension pull for final shaping - this was needed but the grains in the Rye seem to have started to tear dough skin.
9. Proof in flour lined basket/towel 2-3 hours until 1.5 times pre-proof volume.  Took 1 hour.
10. Flip and place in pre-heated dutch oven, score and bake.
Pre-heated at 500F, scored in the very hot DO with scalple blade.  Dropped temp to 450F and kept coverd 25 minutes.  Uncovered and dropped to 425F for 10 minutes, turned for another 10.  Turned again and turned oven off closed for 5 minutes, then turned and left oven cracked open for 5 minutes.
Placed across a bread pan to cool and it sang and crackled for at least 20 minutes.
 
 

Objectives

10% whole grain rye flour

3 build levain from low hydration white starter (dabrownman "no muss no fuss" style)

30 minute autolyse ww and rye

 
 
 
Anconas's picture
Anconas

First, I can mis remember the amount of flour I'm measuring and end up at 72% hydration instead of 70%.

Then I can set the levain/flour/water to pseudo autolyse for 30 minutes, get an urgent call and come back to it 1.5 hours later.

Then I can start to work the dough, remarking how much slacker it was than last time and realize, after 15 minutes of slap and folds appearing to accomplish nothing, that I forgot the salt.

Fold in salt, continue slap and folds, get it to a dough consistency, still pretty extensible but the headache that started hours ago has become a nightmare and all the lymph nodes in my head and neck are swollen and screaming.  So into the refrigerator for the night.

Many vitamin C's and a long night sleep, feeling much better in the morning.  Take out the cold dough, shape it into a boule at this point realizing it will probably spread quite a bit due to the over hydration in addition to my shaping inexperience.  Flour the same towel and place to rise in the same bowl as last time.  Set the timer to check every 20 minutes, then every 10 minutes when it seemed it was getting close.  Go to turn the dough onto my makeshift peel - and it's totally stuck!  Ever so carefully slowly slowly peeling the towel back and teasing the dough off, after 20 minutes of this I have a ciabatta looking thing.

Thinking through some of the great "Saves" TFL'ers have reported, I grabbed a pan and thought I'd poor the whimpy thing in and see what happened.  But I couldn't, I really didn't want a pan loaf, I wanted a crusty bread.  With the large amount of starter I didn't think it could take much more.

It still seemed fairly bubbly even after being stretched all over trying to get it off the towel, and no one was looking so.....I stuffed it into a dutch oven and baked it.  Poor funny looking thing lol.

 

A little oven spring gave it a bit of lift and surprisingly, the crumb texture is better than my last try and the crust is crunchy a little crackly and blistery, very tasty.  I mean, I literally messed up all*the*steps, every one, but I like my messed up bread.

 

This recipe: http://stellaculinary.com/recipes/70-hydration-sourdough-boule

My messed up formula:

    290total flour  
110gWarm Water (Filtered) 72%    
200gPoolish Starter   40%total weight
140gFlour, Bread 83%    
50gFlour, Whole Wheat 17%    
6gSalt 2%    
         
506g1.12pounds     
         
Anconas's picture
Anconas

Practicing dough handling before working on another batch of baguettes.  My sourdough starter became quite crazy active after I switched it's last feeding from the generic AP I've been using to KAF AP so I tried a simple sourdough recipe to test it out.

http://stellaculinary.com/recipes/70-hydration-sourdough-boule

110gWarm Water (Filtered) 70%    
200gPoolish Starter   39%total weight
160gFlour, Bread 87%    
40gFlour, Whole Wheat 13%    
6gSalt 2%    
         
516g1.14pounds     
        

 

The poolish starter was with KAF AP, the WW was KAF, the rest of the flour was my generic AP.

It did take about 10-15 minutes of slap and folds to get the dough stretchy instead of breaking when I tried a window pane test.  I wasn't working quickly, just trying to get an idea for how it felt.  I stopped as soon as it seemed to hold it's shape.

 

Size before bulk rise -

 

Size after bulk rise - only 2 hours but it appeared to have exceeded the 1.5 times rise suggested.

 

Shaped and ready to proof (in the same bowl)

 

After proof, it appeared to hold it's shape

 

Baked seam side up Forkish style in a stoneware dutch oven.  It did have oven spring, not as much as I had hoped.  Still having problems with over proofing it seems.  I did do the poke test and it looked right but I'm missing something.  I added a large cast iron pan in the oven just to hold the heat more steady, this seemed to work well and keep temps more stable with the uncovering/rotating etc.

 

I lost a lot of air bubbles in the shaping stage and the crumb suffered.  I'm guessing my gluten development was still not good enough.  At least it is shaped something like a boule and not a pancake :)  And my starter has proved healthy so I can get more practice.  Now I'm craving some Rye.

Anconas's picture
Anconas

Thanks to a lot of wonderful feedback, I've made some modifications to suit my space better and to contribute to improved bread making.

1. Trying a stone dutch oven to explore the difference in the baking process using stone.  In just two bakes it is very clear how dramatic a difference the stone makes. 

2. Modified the recipe to proportion for size and what I can consume, or share.  Using 146 gram loaves for 10.5 inch baguettes.  3 per 1/2 recipe of txfarmer's practice baguettes.  While I realize this makes them technically no longer baguettes per se, it does allow me to practice more and the same basic skills apply - dough handling, proofing, shaping, scoring, etc. all of which I need to practice as much as possible.

So for the third round, I made the following changes -

  1. Smaller baguettes in stone dutch oven.  Preheated at 475F to account for heat loss, turned down to 450F for bake.  In hindsight I realize this is not necessary because I am not using full oven steam.  My oven was again too hot - not horrible, but still too high.  This is an area I need to adjust.
  2. Substituted 24 grams of sourdough discard at 100% hydration for 12g flour and 12g water.  This was to test flavor impact, not for leavening.
  3. Used a makeshift peel for the first time - this helped tremendously with maintaining shape.
  4. I followed the same timings as the recipe with the following modifications -
    1. I did 2 stretch and folds at each interval instead of one, by the time I got to preshaping I actually had lively dough, this was a definite improvement and works well with my cheap generic AP flour.  That "keep a tight skin on the surface of the dough" is making more sense.  I think I will focus here mostly in the next batch as I still think there is room for improvement in my understanding of the concept and I may need to work this flour even a bit more.
    2. I covered the bake for 7 minutes - still over proofing at this point.  Removed cover and baked for 15 minutes, then turned off oven and cracked the door for 5 minutes.  3 minutes less than suggested but my loaves were crusted.  I need to adjust here, but in coordination with the heat adjustment in #1 I think.
    3. I placed two baguettes in the dutch oven, rotated the pan 180 when removing the cover.  They were too close together and with the parchment divider, there is a strip on each that did not bake as evenly.  If I do this again, I will change their position so the sides in the middle become the sides on the outside when I remove the cover.
    4. One batch of dough I put in the refrigerator to bake the next day but that became two days.  Brought to room temperature, shaped, rested and baked.  A boule this time, to match the shape of the dutch oven and what it is probably best for.  The dough was not very lively by this time.  It did rise a touch and did have oven spring.  Covered for 6 minutes, finished for 15, then 5 with the door cracked.  I did not adjust the heat issue, didn't realize I was probably over heating until after I did this one.  Still over proofing in the cover time.
  1. My scoring is still pretty abominable but I did have one good one, ok one "better" one, enough to make me smile huge taking them out of the oven :)

Overall I changed too many things at the same time but I think it was a good thing.  Without any prior baking experience, I learned a lot about the look and feel of the dough during the process compared with the two other tries so it ended up being a big confidence booster.  With the flour I started with I am fairly sure the protein count is much lower than KAF AP so while it feels like I am manhandling the dough  it seems to work better.  I'll go back to super gentle when I try the KAF for comparison.

It is quite silly to try to make baguettes in a dutch oven but it's all practice.  Baking tiles and a lame are on my next forage list.

I am reading through the Bread Baker's Apprentice and I like the stages of bread part.  I'm finding his pre-ferment part is taking a bit to grasp - not the concepts but the terminology mixture, I think I need a spreadsheet to sort it.  Looking at the basic sourdough, ciabatta and pain a l'ancienne as very interesting.

Dutch Oven quarter size baguettes -

The crust is a bit too thick for the crispyness I love but the crumb is pretty close - makes a very versatile bread for everything from dipping, buttering, sandwiching or just biting into with this degree of holeyness in the crumb.  I still want to take it further but this was a very nice eating experience from fresh out of the oven and cooled, to the next morning. 

 

Boule with dough refrigerated 2 days - oops! life got in the way

Airy and light, a creamier interior than the fresh baked baguettes but still much better than I can find locally.  Photo is bad, in reviewing it looks like the top of the slice is underdone but it wasn't.  I grabbed a quick photo after eating what is missing :)

Anconas's picture
Anconas

Adventures in Baby Steam and Razor Blades!

 

Recipe:  Txfarmer's practice baguettes

Results of Take I - My beginner baguettes

 

I did some more research based on dabrownman's and greenbriel's advice from last week to see what I could tweak with scoring and steam.   And thanks to alfonso, I did compare my weighing 17 times on my scale to the volume recommended by the yeast converter and I did end up really close, like grains close so I don't think my yeast level was off.

I made a full batch of the Beginner Baguette recipe and did 3 different things in the baking process, keeping everything else in the process the same.  I haven't changed anything with dough handling (much) yet, I wanted to see if I had the same results with a second batch of dough changing things after.

  1. I baked 2 baguette's like I did previously, on an aluminum air bake sheet covered with a lasagna pan.  This time I eliminated the parchment paper, added a tiny spice dish with water, and preheated those prior to baking.  (the first time I put those in cold with the dough)  I also increased the temp to 460 as the recipe says, instead of the 450 I did last time due to the parchment paper warning.
    1. The bottoms cook much better with parchment paper on the aluminum surface so that was not an improvement, rather awful actually.
    2. I steamed for 10 minutes as the recipe stated and was surprised that this was too long with such a baby steam component - the scores did swell but they puffed and blended right back into the rest.  So improvement, still adjusting.
    3. The 460 is too high for my oven and baby steam, they crusted a little to fast and hit hard vs. crispy in spots - good to know.  They bowed because my pan bowed at the higher heat.
    4. Crumb results are very similar to the ones from BB Take I, with a very slight improvement.
    5. Scored with hand held razor blade, better but not good.
  1. I baked one on parchment in the same manner
    1. First change with dough handling - I suspect that my flour is weak/lower protein count than the KAF in the recipe and that my handling is still very inexperienced so I left this loaf to proof after pre-shaping for an additional 45 minutes, then shaped and rested for 30 minutes while the other two were cooking.  This showed distinct improvement.  It still doesn't seem good, but it was noticeably better.  So the question is why - gluten development, weak yeast, something I still don't know about? 
    2. Steamed for 8 minutes - still too long
    3. Removed the cover and baking sheet and finished on parchment on the oven rack - Much better and this one got the crispy crackle crust and the crumb had another slight improvement.
    4. Scored with Cutco table knife, serrated with curved tip - this shape is good in that it allowed a better scoring motion and the sharpness broke through without too much drag on the wet dough, getting better.
  1. The last one I put in the refrigerator over night just wrapped up in cling wrap.  Baked it today and invited Mom over for lunch.  Took it out and warmed to room temperature, shaped and rested for 30 minutes.  Dough was better yet, getting closer, still need more gluten development to get a tight skin surface as recommended.  At least I think that is what is needed :)
    1. Used parchment paper, oiled - kept the paper from browning too much
    2. Steamed for 4 minutes and removed cover and steam - this is really close
    3. Left baking sheet until the 10 minute mark and removed it to finish baking on parchment on the oven rack
    4. This one I did at about 455 F and I got teeny tiny edges to the scores - better!  This one was scored with the Cutco table knife as well.
    5. The crust is crazy crispy with a lot of tiny cracks and bubbles but just edging past that - I think I'm going back to 450 F next time, maybe higher for the preheat then turn it down slightly.
    6. The crumb still came out really well after refrigeration and the flavor was creamier if that makes sense, less crisp white bread tasting, fuller and well, better.

Batch 1

 

 

Batch 2

 

Batch 2 Crumb, Batch 3 Loaf

 

Batch 3 Crumb

 

With my very simplistic setup of existing items in a tiny oven and with my grandmother's voice echoing in my head "you already touched it too much!" from when she would teach me how to make country biscuits as a child,  I'm pretty geeked I'm actually making bread, and it doesn't suck lol.  I cook, I don't bake so this is a whole new world. 

Super basic setup to start

Really old pans and oven, tiny and old

 

It is kind of like lasagna though, if I'll take a week to develop the flavors from picking the right tomatoes, adding the right herbs and spices at the right time, aging it appropriately, make and dry the noodles, culture some of the cheeses, until it all comes together with smiles and sighs around the dinner table, then I guess bread is kind of quick lol.  It took a long time to get it to my idea of perfection but I loved every minute.  Baguettes, my new lasagna….at least they're cheaper….so far. 

I'm actually going to read a bread book this week, Bread Baker's Apprentice should be in at the library soon.  There is only one copy in our system so it's coming from a few counties over.  The first one they had available was The New Artisan Bread in Five Minutes a Day.  In my naiveté, I thought it sounded like skill development and concept sharing, terminology, the whole learning over time thing.  Um, no, not what I was looking for.  I want a bread journey, not a recipe book and not the cliff notes.    They don't have the Ken Forkish or the Jeffrey Hamelman books that are referred to often.  I may be able to get a friend in the city to check if their system has them if they are better.

 

So off to work on dough development.  I'm thinking the next batch I will divide at the first S&F point into the 4 batches and work 1 the same way I have been as a control to compare, and then each of the other three with different degrees of change in the dough handling.  Any suggestions on how to incrementally set up those batches would be awesome.  The current formula is mix to shaggy mess - At 45, 90, 135min, do Stretch and Fold (S&F) - single and gently, minimal touching of crazy sticky dough.  At 180min preshape, rest 25-30 min, shape, rest 30-60, bake.  And her caps "AND MINIMAL TOUCHING". (see why I hear my grandmother?? :)

And then repeat with KA  AP flour with a known protein count to see if my theory holds or if I'm on the wrong track completely.  Hope the neighbors like baguettes….

Anconas's picture
Anconas

Last week it was so cold I spent a lot of time making kefir cheeses and web surfing.  Found a site that used kefir as a sourdough starter so I decided to give it a try.  Followed the starter directions and looked for a recipe online to make a loaf.  Found a blog site that had pictures so I followed it.  I produced two loaves - boules - that had some flavor but the texture was extremely lacking.  I decided to pursue an actual sourdough starter and basic sourdough bread so I hit the library.  I have a culture in progress and needed something to do while it matures.

I thought a great idea would be to actually learn how to make a basic bread :)

In all of my internet research to find information and book suggestions, The Fresh Loaf came up repeatedly.  I camped for a while and started reading.  Baguette type breads are my favorites and I found the Straight Method Beginner Baguettes.

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/31945/straight-method-baguette-good-starter-baguette-practice

 

This is my experience with this method, my limitations, and my lack of any actual baking experience beyond cookies and muffins.  The potential of creating an edible baguette loaf had me determined to try!  And I even met with a decent level of success, according to my tastebuds :)

 

Objective Notes:

 

Original goal - Sourdough

Interim goal - baguette basics

 

Process Notes:

These are for practice and do not include sourdough.

They include a great deal of information on dough mixing and handling techniques - excellent reference source.

 

Description and video of stretch and fold technique

http://www.sourdoughhome.com/index.php?content=stretchandfold

 

Video link showing baguette shaping -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdNRogR10nM

 

Technique Link for Bread Scoring and why

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/31887/scoring-bread-updated-tutorial

 

Discussion with photos on Covering vs. Steaming the whole oven when baking

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/16925/covering-vs-steaming

I have a baking sheet and a lasagna pan that I can turn over to use as a cover

 

Some information on baguette sizes

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/14863/baguette-size-and-weight

 

Additional Baguette recipe that includes suggestions for measuring very small amounts of yeast - very important!

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/18813/poolish-baguette-sunflower-seeds

This one uses a preferment and sunflower seeds for a deeper flavor.  It also doesn't give details so refer to the recipe in the first link on this page for the times and techniques - "straight method baguette good starter baguette practice" until I get more experience.

 

Notes:

Things I thought I was doing very well -

  1. Handling the very sticky dough - I actually enjoyed it - using a very light touch and watching all the bubbles building in the dough and not popping all of them.  I didn't use any extra flour/oil/water - just used the stickiness of the dough and my homemade dough scraper to lift and stretch, then fold, like in the video above. 
  2. Only flouring the work surface for the final baguette shaping.  In my observation this allowed my dough to become very cohesive to itself after each manipulation and not slide apart due to over flouring which I was concerned with due to lack of experience.

 

Things I knew were seeming off prior to baking

  1. I halved the recipe and had a very difficult time getting my scale to cooperate for a single gram of yeast.
    1. Need to find a volume equivalent
    2. Scale may need new batteries
  1. My dough after folding and resting had much more pronounced surface bubbles than in the tutorial
    1. May have been over proofing due to miscalculated yeast weight
    2. May have been working dough too lightly and not getting the appropriate gluten structure in dough surface
  1. Scoring such a thin and airy loaf is much more difficult than a denser boule
    1. Practice :)
  1. My dough was not split precise in half
    1. Weigh it next time
  1. Size limitations for final baguette shaping
    1. Limited by size of pans for laying on - aluminum air bake sheet and lasagna pan cover
      1. Adjust shape by making shorter, fatter baguettes
      2. Keep eye out for options to make adjustments - not sure on next step here
  1. Temperature limitation to 450 instead of 460 degrees
    1. Parchment paper is rated to 450 only
    2. Research higher rated parchment paper
  1. No baking stone
    1. After the initial 10 minute covered steam bake I removed both pans and baked on parchment paper on the rack so the bottom crust would not be soggy

 

After Baking -

  1. I removed the smaller loaf at the end of the baking time and did not leave it in for the additional 5 minutes with the oven door cracked open
    1. The crust was delicious and wonderfully crispy
  1. I removed the larger loaf after the 5 minutes with the oven door cracked open was over
    1. It sang!!  I actually heard it

 

 

 

Taste Test

WOW!  An incredibly edible loaf and the crispy crunch and caramely goodness of the crust was fantastic.  Interior was not ideal but airy and light, not gummy at all.  Paired wonderfully butter, then with herbed evoo and a feta style kefir cheese with a side of olives.  Dinner was definitely worth the 46 cents of ingredients to try this method and recipe.

Now I just need to figure out how to save the last half for tomorrows breakfast.......and then try it again :)

 

Thanks so much for such a wonderful site full of inspiration and helpful information for even a fledgling baker.

 

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