What did you use to get the dark rye? I love dark rye. I bake either Lithuanian Black Bread (two days + rest) or Riga Rye (1 day + rest) with chocolate rye malt.
I tried Borodinsky once. I'm sure my technique wasn't great but it came out a lot like a bread I bake when my discard container fills up.
Is the Riga Rye crumb dark after baking if you use white rye flour? Or do you use medium or whole rye? I don't have any white rye and wondered how it would work with higher extraction rye flour.
Also, I have been reluctant to make this bread because of the timings. Does it really take ≈16 h start to finish? I had enough long days in the chemistry lab to be stuck waiting for this to finish baking in the wee hours of the morning.
I don't use white rye flour. The one thing I have in common with Jeff Hamelman is that neither of us likes white rye. Ok, 2 things - we both own copies of "Bread". The one I made yesterday (yes, pretty much all of yesterday from 6 AM to 11 pm, but working only during the intervals between fermentation/proofing) was all medium rye. In the past I used medium rye where the formula said white rye and pumpernickel where the formula said medium rye.
Riga Rye, with medium rye and sometimes pumpernickel The dark color comes from solod in the earlier loaf (Russian fermented rye malt) and from chocolate rye malt (just the color, no actual cacao) from a home brew supplier in yesterday's loaf.
During one of the intervals between active baking work, I was inspired to ask Google AI about how I should have changed the formula hydration when substituting medium for white rye. Sure enough, the AI explained that I should have increased the hydration by 3-5% of the weight of the white rye that was substituted by medium rye. The same applies for swapping in pumpernickel for whole rye, eg., in Black Bread of Lithuania (also from "The Rye Baker").
Yes it really takes 16 hours start to finish (plus 2 days to set before slicing, even if Ginsburg says 12 hrs; Hamelman says 2 days for 80% rye and up, and this is close to 90%). It's a great bread to bake if you're going to be home all day doing nothing that can't be interrupted periodically for mixing, shaping, and baking.
Unless you are stuck in the house all day with a craving for rye 2 days later, you might try the Lithuanian formula instead - it's a more typical 2 day process with the preferments in the morning and evening of Day 1, and the final dough and baking on Day 2.
Here are some supermarket photos from Riga with rye breads and smoked and pickled fish Riga Supermarket
We visited NYC, Scandinavia, and the Baltics on that trip. Here are links to all the photos, many of which include food:
NYC/Sandinavia/Baltics Albums In Scandinavia and the Baltics, every hotel breakfast buffet included rye bread and smoked or pickled fish - exactly what I eat for breakfast in San Diego, CA.
Thanks for sharing the Riga Rye recipe, I sent you a DM with a couple of questions but I'll put them here in case they're useful for others
1.I'm curious what you think I'd be sacrificing if I did the sponge and scald the night before and let it stand overnight at room temp and then do the scald+sponge the next morning. Since it's less than 25% of the final flour in the sponge it seems that letting it overferment isn't a huge deal, what do you think? And then for the scald typically for tangzhong etc. you just scald it and let it come to room temp, put it in the fridge if doing it for a long time, this is the first time I've seen it recommended at 145-150F, is that just to speed it up or does the temp make a big difference otherwise?
2. For the sponge it looks like you have a starter that's at 143% hydration so taht would be 41g flour 59g water, approximately. If mine is at 100% hydration I can just use 82g (100% hydration) and then add the 18g extra water when making the sponge, right?
3. My oven is electric and the manual says not to do steam pans or anything like that so I'm thinking of baking this as a boule in a dutch oven. Proof inside the dutch oven and bake it covered then uncovered, following the other instructions as stated. I know the shape wouldn't be authentic but do you see any other issues with that?
I wish I had the expertise to give you a reliable answer. I view the formulas for Black Bread of Lithuania and Riga Rye as pretty similar except that the Riga Rye is made in one day (with higher temps to speed things up).
Here are two more formulas, also from Lithuania and Latvia: Vilnius Rye, and Latvian Coarse Rye from "The Rye Baker" book and website. I made some mistakes with the Latvian Coarse Rye, but it was the best tasting bread I have ever baked.
We have a GE Monogram electric oven. It worked fine with a Dutch oven, but in order to bake 2 loaves at a time I changed to a steam pan and two baking stones (one on a rack above the bread; I put the bread(s) on the stone on the middle rack). The steam pan goes on the bottom rack. Knock wood, I haven't had any problems with water, even with a little hot water sloshed on to the inside of the oven window when I move the steam pan. Maybe it works because the glass is preheated with the oven, and some near-boiling water spilled on it is close enough in temperature not to be an issue. 5 minutes into the bake I open the door and spritz the top of the loaf again; I think the oven vents the initial steam and there is no way to close the vents.
I'm sure my bread is not up to the standard of an artisan bakery. But it is as good as the commercial rye breads, mostly dark, that we had jn Scandinavia and the Baltics on the hotel breakfast buffets.
I can see how a bakery might benefit from making a loaf start to finish in one day. But for convenience (especially for a home baker), I think the 2 day formulas win.
I might not be able to tell the taste and texture of the one and two day breads apart, but I would be surprised if people with better palates preferred the one day bread.
Totally. By the way, I looked into the temp of the scald - it's different from a tangzhong so yes, the temp does need to be that high. (sharing for others who may be reading this)
I've come across some other recipes for Riga Rye while I was searching for Baltic-style rye breads. I haven't made any of these (yet), so I can't pass on any comments about them.
Increased the hydration and reduced the bake time and temperature to give a more moist crumb. But this is kindergarten work compared to what the pros do here. I make it because it tastes good!
What did you use to get the dark rye? I love dark rye. I bake either Lithuanian Black Bread (two days + rest) or Riga Rye (1 day + rest) with chocolate rye malt.
I tried Borodinsky once. I'm sure my technique wasn't great but it came out a lot like a bread I bake when my discard container fills up.
Bread Code Discard Loaf
Is the Riga Rye crumb dark after baking if you use white rye flour? Or do you use medium or whole rye? I don't have any white rye and wondered how it would work with higher extraction rye flour.
Also, I have been reluctant to make this bread because of the timings. Does it really take ≈16 h start to finish? I had enough long days in the chemistry lab to be stuck waiting for this to finish baking in the wee hours of the morning.
Thanks!
I don't use white rye flour. The one thing I have in common with Jeff Hamelman is that neither of us likes white rye. Ok, 2 things - we both own copies of "Bread". The one I made yesterday (yes, pretty much all of yesterday from 6 AM to 11 pm, but working only during the intervals between fermentation/proofing) was all medium rye. In the past I used medium rye where the formula said white rye and pumpernickel where the formula said medium rye.
Riga Rye, with medium rye and sometimes pumpernickel The dark color comes from solod in the earlier loaf (Russian fermented rye malt) and from chocolate rye malt (just the color, no actual cacao) from a home brew supplier in yesterday's loaf.
During one of the intervals between active baking work, I was inspired to ask Google AI about how I should have changed the formula hydration when substituting medium for white rye. Sure enough, the AI explained that I should have increased the hydration by 3-5% of the weight of the white rye that was substituted by medium rye. The same applies for swapping in pumpernickel for whole rye, eg., in Black Bread of Lithuania (also from "The Rye Baker").
Yes it really takes 16 hours start to finish (plus 2 days to set before slicing, even if Ginsburg says 12 hrs; Hamelman says 2 days for 80% rye and up, and this is close to 90%). It's a great bread to bake if you're going to be home all day doing nothing that can't be interrupted periodically for mixing, shaping, and baking.
Unless you are stuck in the house all day with a craving for rye 2 days later, you might try the Lithuanian formula instead - it's a more typical 2 day process with the preferments in the morning and evening of Day 1, and the final dough and baking on Day 2.
Here are some supermarket photos from Riga with rye breads and smoked and pickled fish Riga Supermarket
We visited NYC, Scandinavia, and the Baltics on that trip. Here are links to all the photos, many of which include food:
NYC/Sandinavia/Baltics Albums In Scandinavia and the Baltics, every hotel breakfast buffet included rye bread and smoked or pickled fish - exactly what I eat for breakfast in San Diego, CA.
Thanks for sharing the Riga Rye recipe, I sent you a DM with a couple of questions but I'll put them here in case they're useful for others
1.I'm curious what you think I'd be sacrificing if I did the sponge and scald the night before and let it stand overnight at room temp and then do the scald+sponge the next morning. Since it's less than 25% of the final flour in the sponge it seems that letting it overferment isn't a huge deal, what do you think? And then for the scald typically for tangzhong etc. you just scald it and let it come to room temp, put it in the fridge if doing it for a long time, this is the first time I've seen it recommended at 145-150F, is that just to speed it up or does the temp make a big difference otherwise?
2. For the sponge it looks like you have a starter that's at 143% hydration so taht would be 41g flour 59g water, approximately. If mine is at 100% hydration I can just use 82g (100% hydration) and then add the 18g extra water when making the sponge, right?
3. My oven is electric and the manual says not to do steam pans or anything like that so I'm thinking of baking this as a boule in a dutch oven. Proof inside the dutch oven and bake it covered then uncovered, following the other instructions as stated. I know the shape wouldn't be authentic but do you see any other issues with that?
Thanks for the reply! I might try a 2 day version and report back. Perhaps the one day thing was done more as a necessity rather than a best practice.
I can see how a bakery might benefit from making a loaf start to finish in one day. But for convenience (especially for a home baker), I think the 2 day formulas win.
I might not be able to tell the taste and texture of the one and two day breads apart, but I would be surprised if people with better palates preferred the one day bread.
Totally. By the way, I looked into the temp of the scald - it's different from a tangzhong so yes, the temp does need to be that high. (sharing for others who may be reading this)
I've come across some other recipes for Riga Rye while I was searching for Baltic-style rye breads. I haven't made any of these (yet), so I can't pass on any comments about them.
RIGA bread. GOST 2077-84
Riga Rye-early recipe
Riga Rye-modern recipe
Riga Rye-old dough
Riga Rye (Rus Brot)
Riga Rye (Rus Brot)
Increased the hydration and reduced the bake time and temperature to give a more moist crumb. But this is kindergarten work compared to what the pros do here. I make it because it tastes good!
That bread looks delicious; the fact that it is easier to make does not make it any less delicious!
The recipe reminds me of the Russian Black Bread recipe on the King Arthur website.