Reading about low protein flour (9.4% in my case), I see bread recipes calling for longer fermentation times, some with a final proofing of four or five hours... meaning prepping the dough and then baking the following day. Most suggest refrigerating the dough over night and returning to room temperature the next morning. I’m no baker but it would seem kinder on the yeast to leave the dough, oiled and covered, on the counter-top overnight. Just curious. Does anyone have an opinion on refrigerating dough?
Thanks,
Katie
Refrigerating the dough can have real benefits. If you just leave it out on the counter, it's likely to over-proof by the next morning. If your dough won't ferment that fast, refrigeration isn't needed, but that's often not the case. Fermentation will continue as the dough cools down. I use a rule of thumb that fermentation will continue for an hour, so refrigerating an hour (or more) before you expect the dough to be ready will produce a nicely fermented dough the next morning. If fermentation hasn't progressed enough you can always finish fermenting on the countertop; of course, the dough will take an hour or more extra to get back up to fermentation temperature.
The cold dough will be stiffer, which often makes shaping and handling easier. Bread made from refrigerated dough usually tastes better, although it can also taste more sour, which not everyone likes. Most of my refrigerated doughs end up with just enough sour bite to add a pleasant savoriness without really seeming sour.
A shaped loaf can also be refrigerated, and if it's proofed enough overnight, can be baked cold.
So for me, refrigeration is a great tool to help manage my baking schedule with few downsides.
TomP
Great Tom, thank you.
I have a real problem with slack dough. I form it into a nice round ball and moments later I have a frisbee. Would you recommend forming the dough cold from the fridge and slipping it into a hot oven immediately? Might I get a reasonable boule before the slump?
Still trying to make this lousy flour work for me....
Katie
That might help, but chances are it would relax in the oven and flatten out too. Your best be would be to work the dough as much as you can while shaping the ball. This means stretching it out and folding it back (gently so as not to compress the dough any more than possible), before making the final shape, and trying to tighten up the outer layer after it's formed, and also possibly showering the dough with flour.
Mostly, though, I would try reducing the water in the dough. Make the hydration lower. Some flours are especially temperamental about how much water they will tolerate. Where does your flour come from? It's not a standard US or Canadian all-purpose flour, it would seem. Those wouldn't cause this kind of problem as long as the hydration isn't too large.
PS: not a dumb question at all!
There isn't a need. Enjoy!
I'm down to 36% hydration so can't go any lower :-) The dough is hard to work with in the beginning, seems to form up but kneading does not add strength. I'm kneading for 10 minutes each after two proofings, plus some stretching and folding. Baking gives me a fair facsimile of a squat cannon ball. But I've been through all this before in an earlier thread and don't want to waste people's time on an unsolvable problem... Much thanks... Katie
In all the pictures of your bakes you have shared, I see what looks like some kind of seeds. I don't recall you mentioning this. What else is in your bread?
Sounds like you will have to revert to using a loaf pan, then. You could try adding a little bit of crushed vitamin C. A tiny bit of ascorbic acid is a known dough conditioner that tightens up gluten. It's been discussed here on TFL.
Thanks Tom...
If you do go to a loaf pan you can raise the hydration since the pan will keep the loaf from spreading. It can be so gloppy you can't even shape a log and the bread will probably turn out good (of course, I haven't played with your particular flour, but I think it should work even with glop).
Glob says it all :-)
I’m going to try one last time, autolyse-ing (sp?) the flour. I’ll try 8oz of water to the 3-1/2 cups of flour and toss the yeast in dry after one hour and see if I get a rise.
I’m not expecting a nice Rustico bread but I’ll try... maybe cutting back on the kneading a little. It can’t hurt and as before... there’s always facaccia.
All best, Tom.
Katie
Hi, just popping in here for a minute but "down to 36% hydration" strikes me as very peculiar. Dry as a bone almost. >cough cough<
What am I not understanding? How is this figured?
Edit: Ok started reading the other threads and
I have a few Q"s. What tropical country are you in? What are you using for a measuring cup? How old is the flour? and most important...What kind of flour is it? (Ask what the locals use it for?)
I've had a lot of experience with no equipment, bad flour and baking in the tropics with a gas stove
(LPG gas bottle) and dealing with foreign languages.
I didn't read all the previous posts but hope I can help out, even just a little bit.
Mini Oven
increasing protein: Try this...Got any chicken eggs? Drop an egg white into your water measuring cup and then add water to desired level (for about 4 cups of recipe flour) Beat it with a fork to break up the egg white a little before adding to the flour. Follow your instant yeast recipe.
Thanks for “popping-in” Mini Oven.
I’m determining hydration by dividing the quantity of liquid by the quantity of flour and yeah, 36% is barely workable in the beginning but starts to form up after a bit of kneading. The flour is Blanquita and packaged in Santo Domingo but no idea where it comes from. Protein is 9.4% so basically a pastry flour though it is labeled All Purpose. I use a standard glass measuring cup and the flour is “fresh” from the store. The locals probably use a bag to prop open the door.
Thanks for the egg-white tip. I’d be interested to try adding it to the liquid measure. Not sure of the chemistry here, but it would be great to get a nice firm, elastic dough.
I get a nice rise after an hour but the dough is very jiggly and does not dome up free from the sides of the bowl. Following the second proofing and kneading, the dough would not stretch thin for the “window pane test,” just tear.
Baking produced a flat, colorless loaf with decent crumb but I need a saw to get through the crust.
If I’m reading this right, you want me to go up to 4-cups of flour. If your basic dough recipe is in cups and ounces, I’d love to have a look. I don’t have a scale.
Any further comments gratefully received.
Katie
A "cup" isn't always the same size, depending in part on where it is from. The most reliable way to measure flour is to spoon it into a cup and sweep away the excess on top with a knife or something else that's flat. But with a glass measuring cup that's probably intended for liquids you can't do that since the graduations will be below the top. A flat-topped dry measure cup would be better if you can get such a thing. Otherwise it sounds like you have a good feel for the dough. That's the most important thing; the actual hydration percentage may be different from what you think.
Flour weight is also increased in higher humidity because of the absorbed moisture. Between the measuring cup and the humidity, your flour weight is probably different from what you think.
If your dough is well-risen and jiggly after an hour as you wrote, it's time to bake. Skip any second proof or shaping and just get it gently into the oven. This may let you avoid the excessive deterioration you've been getting after that first hour. This is going to work best if you can use a loaf pan. After initial mixing and kneading, plop that dough right into the pan, then bake after that hour or so of rising.
I looked up what flours are available in the Dominican and AI named a couple, but I suppose if they were available to you, you'd have tried them. It also said the mills might not be that stringent and could mix different types of flour and who knows what processes they use. The long & short of it was that although the bag says 9+ g protein, it probably ain't.
At least it’s flour... maybe...
:-(
Katie
Thank you Tom.
Just to clarify, I mixed my flour and liquids, let proof for an hour and THEN began the kneading (10 minutes). Are you suggesting I knead before the proofing? ie: mix, knead, proof, bake?
Katie
I usually let my dough rest after a rough mixing, because it's easier to knead later. But your dough seems to deteriorate with time, so I'd minimize that rest period. Even 15 minutes is enough to make kneading easier. And yes, kneading normally comes before proofing. What you call "let proof for an hour and then knead" is usually called an autolyse or just a rest; it's not considered proofing. Proofing is the fermentation that comes afterward.
But that's just words. You wrote that your dough rises well in an hour and gets "jiggly". That probably means it's already fermented plenty. After that the dough deteriorates. So I suggest you try changing your schedule to take advantage of that early period where the dough hasn't started to turn to glop. Try it like this:
Well Tom, that sounds simple enough. I’ll check out a couple of stores this afternoon and see if I can find something to use as a loaf pan. I’ve been looking for a proper pie plate the last couple of months, but only those flimsy tinfoil things are available. You guys in civilized countries have it so-o-o-o easy :-)
Anyway, looks like lots of bread in my future. I also want to try LittleOven’s suggestion of adding an egg-white but that’s a separate issue and a separate loaf.
I’ll get back to you and include some photos so you can see results.
Thank you, Tom
Katie
If you can find a traditional clay cooking pot, you could try baking a loaf in one of them. Unless it's made from micaceous clay, or a modern heat-shock resistant type of clay, you should probably start it in a cold or only partly heated oven. Choose one that's small enough to contain the dough without letting it spread out sideways too much. Look up on line how to season these pots before use.
The KISS principle should be followed. Once you do that - as in make bread - do other things. You have the ingredients. Only thing missing is how. Don't get ahead of yourself - and that's a warning. Enjoy!