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Tips for crispy bagel crusts

Lmw4's picture
Lmw4

Tips for crispy bagel crusts

Hello,

I have been making bagels for a few years.  I've researched and read lots of blogs, recipes and google searches along the way and have gotten close to what I hope to achieve.

I use a combo of KAF bread flour and high gluten flour and add diastatic malt to the recipe.  I mix, bulk ferment for a few hours, shape and over night ferment in the fridge.  In the morning, they go into boiling water if/when they pass the float test.  I use malt syrup and baking soda in the water bath and boil for about 30 sec/side.

They go into a 500 degree F oven on a preheated stone.

They rise beautifully, the crumb is perfect, they taste great, and although the crust has blisters is a bit too chewy and not crispy.  

Any suggestions to lessen the chew and increase the crisp??

Thank 

 

trailrunner's picture
trailrunner

You won’t ever get the right color, crispness and over all “bagelness” without a  lye bath. It’s so easy and the lye solution is SO weak there is zero danger. 1 tsp per qt of cold water. Add the lye to the water bring to a boil. Bagel gets 30 sec per side. Drain and then bake 400 20 min that’s it. They are absolutely perfect. Good luck c

Lmw4's picture
Lmw4

Thank you.  I didn’t realize lye had an impact on the crispness of the crust. I thought it was just for color and taste but for pretzels.  I will try this for sure. So just lye and not malt syrup or baking soda, correct?

I looked at your postings and will pay attention to the precautions.

Do you just dump the bath down the drain when you are finished?

trailrunner's picture
trailrunner

You can look up lots of info on line. The lye is also what is used for kansui to make ramen and other alkaline dependent noodles. The 0 .5% solution isn't strong enough to harm you or anything it touches. Lye products are used in the drains all the time. It is perfectly safe . 1 tsp per quart of water is a .5% solution. If you are doing pretzels then you want 3tsp per qt and that is stronger and I would not be spilling it on me but definitely would not worry about putting it down the drain. 

Nothing else in the water at all for the boiling just the lye. As far as malt the flavor of malt in bagels is gotten by using non-diastatic malt. No enzymatic action just the malty flavor. If you have diastatic malt you can convert it to non- diastatic by baking it for 5 min at 350 and then the enzymes are denatured. It is cheaper and easier to find diastatic and treat 1/2 the container so you have both kinds as they are both useful for different baking products.

Hope this has been helpful. Look forward to you posting. c

Lmw4's picture
Lmw4

This has been enormously helpful!

One last question!  If I use lye it sounds like it will create some chew. Does it make sense to use the lower protein KAF bread flour as opposed to their high gluten flour?  I don’t want it to be overly chewy!

Thanks again. I do appreciate the guidance.  There are SO many variables in bread baking and I love all of it and having this sort of guidance is wonderful. 

 

trailrunner's picture
trailrunner

I use French t80 flour for everything now. I buy from Le’Epicerie who get it direct from France. The flour is very high in gluten ! I use it exclusively for my white flour needs no more KA or any other US white flours. You don’t need to worry about too high gluten / protein or getting too much chew. It definitely wasn’t a problem . I made these with my KA mixer and the bread hook and developed them till they had the  characteristic “ rubber tire” consistency. The chew was perfect. 

For one of the best baking blogs ever do look at the link I posted in my bagel post here on TFL . Susan’s Wild Yeast Blog archives will give you an outstanding education in all aspects of baking. The SD bagel recipe I used is from her blog . I use many of her formulas over all the years and there are never any errors. Good luck and very glad to help. Caroline

trailrunner's picture
trailrunner

I use French t80 flour for everything now. I buy from Le’Epicerie who get it direct from France. The flour is very high in gluten ! I use it exclusively for my white flour needs no more KA or any other US white flours. You don’t need to worry about too high gluten / protein or getting too much chew. It definitely wasn’t a problem . I made these with my KA mixer and the bread hook and developed them till they had the  characteristic “ rubber tire” consistency. The chew was perfect. 

For one of the best baking blogs ever do look at the link I posted in my bagel post here on TFL . Susan’s Wild Yeast Blog archives will give you an outstanding education in all aspects of baking. The SD bagel recipe I used is from her blog . I use many of her formulas over all the years and there are never any errors. Good luck and very glad to help. Caroline

Lmw4's picture
Lmw4

I’ll definitely look at the blog.  Thanks for mentioning. 

Rock's picture
Rock

This is not a traditional "New York" Bagel recipe, but it seems you are looking for a more tender result.

Take a look at this recipe and explanation from Stella Parks using the Yukone method.

https://www.seriouseats.com/homemade-bagels-recipe

Dave

Lmw4's picture
Lmw4

I’ve seen mention of this method. 

It’s on my list to try.

Yhanks for posting