The Fresh Loaf

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Soft to a fault and other problems

tc4all's picture
tc4all

Soft to a fault and other problems

My bread is good and I like how soft it haas been, but I keep having one problems or another.  First the sides were sinking in.  I cut the water back and got some dense spots in the bread so compromised as below.  It was rising to the top lid so I cut back the yeast which didn't help much and this time, it went to the top, then came back down a tiny bid, but ended with the top not being fully cooked.  IT makes a soft bread.  This time it was so soft that it had no structure and when handled to get it out of the pan, just gave way.  (That is not normal even for my strange bread.). This time, I could smell fermentation or what I assume that is, when I took it out.  Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.  

 

I expect problems when I adjust to make it lower in carbs, but this is the base I start with and these last few times I have had major problems.  Today's loaf was tossed.

Using  Zojurishi 2lb loaf machine (BB-PAC20)

Here is the recipe:

water 260 ml

EVOO or butter 1 1/2 T. (butter this time)

Salt 1T

Lecithin 1/8t

Rye Flour 111g. (1 1/8c)

Whole Wheat flour 123g. (1 1/8c)

Vital Wheat Gluten 128g. (1c)

Powdered Milk 1 1/2t

Sugar 2t

Ascorbic Acid  1/4t

Diastatic Malt 1t

Milled Flax Seed 19g  (1/4c)

yeast 1 1/2t. (Red Star Platinum)

Setting - Quick Whole Wheat

 

 

 

 

Abe's picture
Abe

Or is it one of your own? 

While making a recipe is doable the recipes that come with the machine are very fine tuned to work with the settings given. So first things first... Did this recipe come with the instructions? 

tc4all's picture
tc4all

I posted a comment that didn't come up as a reply to you but as a reply to the original posting. You can see it below.

mariana's picture
mariana

High gluten loaves, i.e. gluten flour based breads, should be baked in small sizes, tiny even (100-200g per loaf, max 300g, i.e. 3-10oz, what a Mini Zojirushi bread machine would handle) or made into pita or some other flatbread shapes. They are by nature super soft and squishy, cannot stand vertically after baking, should be cooled off lying on the side. So, there is nothing wrong with your recipe per se, it's that size matters. In this case, literally.

Even 200g/0.5lb loaves, baked tall, cave in mercilessly after baking them for an hour to fortify their crusts and cook them through, and yours is four times larger.

That is its typical size, 200g/7oz, equal to the weight of two bagels. 

So bake them smaller and longer and you will be happier.

 

rondayvous's picture
rondayvous

I saw the (what I considered) huge amount of vital gluten in the recipe and was waiting for someone who has used that stuff to comment. I suppose the gluten displaces too much of the structure supporting starch to support the weight of the loaf. 

tc4all's picture
tc4all

I do have the smaller machine and have used that but going through the bread so quickly I use the larger machine more often. I have had this work but that's before I made a couple little changes. Also, I did read that you can use vital wheat gluten for up to 1/3 of the flower content which is about where I am. I will give a smaller loaf a try tomorrow.

tc4all's picture
tc4all

This is not a recipe that came with a machine.I have not found any decent recipes for a machine, that are as low in carbs as this is. I've been using it with slight variations for many years. The variations were always to bring down the number of carbs or to get the flavor or Texture what I want. I have been there a number of times but for a while now I've been having these problems that I mentioned.

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

the size of the recipe.  Rising and falling, hitting the lid (is this a pullman pan?) and falling ounds like it didn't hit the lid well enough to fill up the corners and stay up when cooled. Sides collapsing sound also like not enough dough in the pan or rising too long.  Sounds to me like the final proofing is going on too long and needs to be shorter.