The Fresh Loaf

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Debra Wink's whole wheat loaf bread

pnguyen951's picture
pnguyen951

Debra Wink's whole wheat loaf bread

After reading and enjoying Gavin's (gavinc) bakes (here) of Debra Wink's whole wheat loaf bread. It looked so good, I decided I had to try and bake it.

I tried to follow all of Gavin's posts on this recipe, so here goes:

 

 

Below are directions from Gavin's post

Milk, egg and water together are the total hydration

   

 

 

Weigh the milk and egg and enough water to make up

   

 

 

to 75% - 375-400 grams (solves the problem of egg size)

  

 

Process keys:

       

 

 

·       Develop gluten before adding oil

    

 

 

·       Give the dough two full rises in bulk instead of just one

   
 

·       Keep the dough cool to cold for the majority of fermentation (no higher than 23C)

 

Mixing

Type of mixer

Mixer

 

   

 

   

All except oil/butter

   

 

  

Rest

10-20 mins to hydrate

   

 

   

mix to good gluten development

  

 

 

 

 

Add oil /butter until incorporated

 

 

  

 

Final Dough

DDT

23 C

    

 

Bulk Fermentation

 

Refrigerate

   

 

1st rise

length of time

12 hours to at least double

  

 

 

Remove from fridge

Cool room temp, up to 2 hrs if needed

  

 

   

Degas and fold

   

 

2nd rise

Rise again

3 to 5 hours cool room temp. Should rise higher

   

 

Shaping

Oblong

Divide

 

500g doughs

  

 

  

Pre-shape

round

   

 

  

Resting time

20-60 mins as needed

  

 

  

Shape

 

blunt cylinders

  

 

 

 

Proofing device

oiled loaf pan 21 x 11 x 7cm

 

 

Proof & Bake

Final Proof time

Approximately 1.5 to 3 hours hour at 22C

 

  

Scoring

 

nil

   

 

 

Oven type/temperature

Conventional 190C

  

 

    

Convection 177C

  

 

  

Total bake

25-30 minutes

 

Below: doubled in volume after 12 hour refrigeration first rise and 2 hour at 77F RT 

 

Below: almost tripled in volume after aggressive 4-6 sets of S&F and 3.5 hours second rise at RT

 

Below:  pre-shaped into ball after second rise

 

Below:  shaped into oblong and placed into 8.5x4.75x4.375 pullman pan for final proofing

 

Below:  final proofing rise - about 2 hours at RT. It rose too high to put the top cover on. Will experiment with dough size so I can get cover on without too much restriction.

 

Below:  cooling right after baking for 30 mins at 375F

 

Will get some crumb shots after it finishes cooling down.

 

Happy baking!

-Paul

 

pnguyen951's picture
pnguyen951

gavinc's picture
gavinc

Hi Paul. Fabulous! So glad you have tried this. I'm sure Debra Wink will be thrilled also. Also, great write-up of the recipe and process. Exactly true to the original. 

Cheers, Gavin

Edit: Nice looking crumb. How would you describe the flavour and texture? Great result especially as it was your first try.

pnguyen951's picture
pnguyen951

Gavin,

So many thanks to your exploits and Debra's ingenious recipe! My results speak for how your detailed posts were.

I used KA WW flour that Debra had stated was what she originally started this recipe on. I quite like the taste of WW from KA but will probably experiment with adding some of the Spelt flour I have on hand. This sandwich bread loaf tastes exactly what one would expect from a whole wheat bread - wholesome, nutritious, and full fletched flavor. However, I didn't get a ton of sourdough flavor, but I'm quite used to a very pronounced tang in my sourdough breads. Also, with this type of bread, I guess one shouldn't be looking for that Artisan type sourdough tang...

Texturally, I think it's very fluffy - almost Hokkaido milk bread fluffy, but with whole wheat! I will drop the temperature down to 350F as my oven, I guess, is a convection type since it has a fan in the back. That will make it even more fluffy. This loaf is so soft and delicate, 350F should be good.

 

-Paul

Debra Wink's picture
Debra Wink

Beautiful crust coloring you got on that loaf, Paul. Deep color brings a lot of good roasty flavor to the loaf. I don't look for a characteristic sourdough flavor as I don't care for tanginess in my whole grain breads, but rather added complexity. Although I personally haven't found the sourdough addition to be worth the extra effort and planning as this is more of an impromptu bread for me. If you like it, by all means continue. I suggested the addition to Gavin as he only has white whole wheat available (and his walnut oil isn't roasted), which can leave this bread a bit bland. 

Thank you for reporting your bake  :)
dw

pnguyen951's picture
pnguyen951

Hi Debra,

I thank you for blessing us with your presence, your gracious recipe, and your valuable comments here and in Gavin's threads.

Debra Wink's picture
Debra Wink

I appreciate your giving this bread a try. Once you're comfortable with the basic dough and process, you'll discover many different ways it can be used --- you can even laminate it with butter to make cinnamon rolls and breakfast pastries. The eggs/yolks or butter can be increased, or the honey, to create something more brioche- or sweet dough-like. Increase the walnut oil for an even softer bread, etc. I started making crackers a couple years ago out of excess dough:

Happy Baking!
dw

WanyeKest's picture
WanyeKest

Hi Debra. May I ask some off topic questions? If I didn't misread your comment on some post (which I forgot lol), I believe you said yeast is active mostly on the surface of the dough. If the goal is to minimize sourness by increasing yeast activity, would it help by doing certain adjustments:

1. flatten my stiff levain to increase surface area

2. doing stretch and folds very often during bulk ferment to redistribute yeast on surface area?

thank you, I really appreciate it

 

Debra Wink's picture
Debra Wink

I believe you said yeast is active mostly on the surface of the dough. 

Hi WK, I can see how you could (mis)understand it that way, but what I was trying to say in so many words is that oxygen doesn't penetrate deeply or through the whole dough because it doesn't get past the yeast closest to the surface. It's consumed just about as quickly as it diffuses in --- yeast are greedy that way, but they're plenty active throughout the dough :)

It was in the context of things that can drive acetic acid production by LAB (oxygen being one of them) which works great in pure culture in a test tube with constant stirring. But in real doughs yeast tend to get to it first. I was addressing a myth that because oxygen is a driver of acetic acid production that aeration is needed for that. (But fructose is actually the main driver of acetic acid in lean, unamended doughs.)

Reducing the LAB:Yeast ratio going into your dough is accomplished more effectively through starter maintenance and levain management, so tell me about your starter.

1. The temperature you're keeping it

2. The flour(s) you're feeding it

3. The hydration

4. The feeding ratio (how many grams of starter, water, and flour)

5. How many times per day (plus a photo of what it looks like at feeding time, from both side and top)

Thank you,
dw

Benito's picture
Benito

Beautiful loaf Paul, you just be so pleased. 

Benny

pnguyen951's picture
pnguyen951

Thanks very much Benny! Most definitely very pleased with how light and fluffy the loaf came out. 

Ming's picture
Ming

Looks to me like you have another winner here, Paul, nice work with the bake using a proven recipe. 

pnguyen951's picture
pnguyen951

Very much appreciate it Ming! Seeing Gavin’s bakes of this recipe and then learning it was originally KA WW without additional wheat gluten made me want to try it out more.

GaryBishop's picture
GaryBishop

Beautiful! Thanks for your clear writeup. I'm going to try it. 

pnguyen951's picture
pnguyen951

Thank you Gary! Anyone who appreciates a healthy and tasty whole wheat loaf should try this. I just couldn't believe how much rise and fluffiness this bread has. It has been a great experience baking this. I will continue to regularly bake this for our home's sandwich bread.

GaryBishop's picture
GaryBishop

Way too tall. I should have used 200g of flour as usual instead of the 250 I calculated by scaling. 

Very nice texture, simple flavor. 

I used 2.5% of my liquid SD starter but don't notice its flavor.

My dough temperature was 83f (28C) using all cold ingredients. I refrigerated for 14 hours to suit my timing. It more than doubled during that time. Second rise was 2.5 hours at 77f (25C). Then final proof was 1.5 hours. 

I baked at 350f (175C) convection starting from a cold oven for 45 minutes. 

It is 6 inches (> 15cm) tall! 200g of flour would have put it as about 5 inches which is the height I prefer. 

Good fun and good eating.

pnguyen951's picture
pnguyen951

Gary, that's a beautiful loaf! Congrats!

But yeah, you see what I mean by it rising so much more than you would think?

Happy baking!

-Paul

Debra Wink's picture
Debra Wink

Hi Gary, thank you for adding your comments. Is that a 4 x 4 x 4" mini pullman pan? I don't have one, but I would scale that as 250g of finished dough. 250g of flour should make about two loaves in that size pan. The crumb will be lighter if you give it more room as well  :)

My best,
dw

GaryBishop's picture
GaryBishop

I misread your weights as flour not total. Live and learn.

Debra Wink's picture
Debra Wink

Oops -- so sorry for the confusion!

GaryBishop's picture
GaryBishop

Much more reasonable size and softer texture. Very nice. 

Debra Wink's picture
Debra Wink

Thank you Gary for not giving up on this bread after my miscommunication! Looks like you are headed in the right direction. When you're used to lean sourdough hearth loaves it's easy to underestimate the leavening power of this kind dough :)

My best,
dw

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

I am always looking out for 100% Whole Wheat breads that look like this. I am going to make this one but with fresh-milled whole wheat flour.

Happy baking!

David

pnguyen951's picture
pnguyen951

Thanks David! I’ve not gotten started on milling my own flour, but that has to be super tasty. Can’t wait to see it!

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

The total weight of "liquid" ingredients (milk + egg + Water) is 292.5g. This does compute to 75% hydration. Your instruction says they should add up to 375-400g. You didn't adjust your weight from Gavin's version it appears. He made a larger batch of dough than you did.

You also copied Gavin's suggestion for scaling loaves to 500g. Did you use just 500g in your short Pullman pan, or did you bake the entire785g or dough in one loaf?

Thanks in advance for your reply.

David

pnguyen951's picture
pnguyen951
  1. David, sorry if there’s any confusion. The instructions are from Gavin’s threads on this recipe. I didn’t change any of the values or amounts in those instructions. The most important parts of the instructions I took were the multiple rises, timing, keeping the dough cool, and techniques. In the spreadsheet shot, I used the baker’s percentages to change the overall dough volume to what I thought would be right for using my one 8.5x4.75x4.375 Pullman pan, which is definitely shorter but is also wider and taller than Gavin’s (13x4x4 I think).

Edit: not sure what protein level your milled flour will be, but Debra recommends minimum 14% (KA WW level). If lower, she recommended Gavin to add wheat gluten in order for it to rise properly. 

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

I will probably make this is a 13" pullman pan or two 8 X 4" pans. 

I believe 13" Pullman Pans usually work with 1 Kg of dough, so I calculated the ingredients to make 1 Kg dough using the formula in Hamelman. Debra's recipe in Hamelman calls for scaling to 500g for 8 X 4" pans. Here's my result:

 

Ingredients

Wt (g)

Baker’s %

Whole Wheat Flour

510

100

Milk (non-fat)

204

40

Egg

51

10

Water (cold)

127.6

25

Salt

10.2

2

Instant yeast

5.1

1

Honey

61.2

12

Roasted Walnut Oil or Butter

30.6

6

Starter

25.5

5

Total

1000 (w/o starter)

201.3 (196 w/o Starter) *

* Conversion Factor = 5.1 (w/o starter)

Notes

  1. This is for a 13” Pullman loaf pan or two 8 X 4” loaf pans.
  2. The Starter is for added flavor and is optional.
  3. Weigh the egg and milk and add water to make 382.6 (75% hydration dough)

I haven't decided which wheat berries to mill for this. I'm leaning toward Warthog Wheat, and I think that is around 14% protein.

I hope my bread turns out as lovely as yours!

David

pnguyen951's picture
pnguyen951

David, this dough rises so much that 1kg total dough would probably rise over the top (without lid) - Gavin, at Debra's suggestion in this post, went to 900g for his 13x4x4 Pullman pan and that seems to have been perfect to use with lid for his flour with wheat gluten added. 

Since my Pullman pan's volume is slightly less than Gavin's, I had tried it with 785g, but that seems to still be too much for the KA WW flour I used.

I’m sure your fresh-milled bread loaf will taste even better. All I did was follow this great recipe.

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

David

Debra Wink's picture
Debra Wink

Hi David,

Here are amounts that work well for me:

13 x 4 x 4" pullman:   800g dough for a loaf the size and shape of a typical grocery store sandwich bread

13" pullman loaf

9 x 4 x 4" pullman:   550g dough

8.5 x 4.5 x 2.5" standard loaf pan:   500g dough

Hamburger buns:   2.25 - 2.5 oz

I've never milled my own grain, so I'll be interested to hear how it goes with that. My current flour is taking up more water, so be prepared to add some (5-10%) if you feel it's needed. The dough should be soft but not loose at the end of mixing, and tacky but not sticky when touched lightly.

Happy Baking  :)
dw

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

You have probably saved me numerous trials (and errors)! 

Happy baking!

David

HeiHei29er's picture
HeiHei29er

Beautiful bake!  I also tried this loaf after seeing Gavin’s posts and really enjoyed it as well!

Looks delicious!

pnguyen951's picture
pnguyen951

Thank you Troy! It really is delicious, soft, and fluffy.

albacore's picture
albacore

All these Debra/Gavin bakes made me want to try it again! (3rd time, I think). This time I thought I'd go for the shiny look with the full rye finish of flour paste pre-bake and 2 x potato starch glazes.

I don't bother with the retard on this bake - straight bulk and final proof. It all happens pretty fast.

The big loaf used Benny's Hokkaido style four piece moulding and the smaller tin was shaped "roly poly" aka swiss roll.

 

 

 

 

 

Lance

Benito's picture
Benito

Beautiful Lance, nice to show off several different shapes of the same dough.  I love the shiny crust and soft looking crumb.

Benny

pnguyen951's picture
pnguyen951

Really beautiful loaves Lance! The glaze really brings out such a rich color. It has to be delicious!

albacore's picture
albacore

Thanks Paul & Benny, I do like the shiny look!

Lance

Debra Wink's picture
Debra Wink

That crumb looks perfect, Lance. For many years I shined the top of this bread by brushing on an egg white wash pre bake. An egg white whisked with a tablespoon of water. I often had a white or two left over after one thing or another :)

dw

albacore's picture
albacore

Yes, I guess there are several ways to get a shiny top. An egg white sounds like an easy one and like you, I seem to collect them!

Lance

JonJ's picture
JonJ

Skillful baking here, love the appearance. Can you tell me about the flour paste?

albacore's picture
albacore

Thanks Jon. Do this: make a paste of 1 tbs white flour in 50ml water. Brush your loaf just before it goes in the oven.

Make a corn or potato starch glaze - one tspn starch mixed with a little cold water and pour on 125ml blg water with mixing. It should end up clear and thick; if not cook it a little.

Brush on the loaves at the end of backing. Put back in the oven 5 mins. Take out and brush again. Leave to cool. Very shiny tops!

Lance

gavinc's picture
gavinc

Magnificent! Love he finish. My next bake of Debra's will be with red winter wheat I recently sourced with the help of Derek (should arrive in a week or two). I have also obtained some roasted walnut oil. Hopefully these will compete the ingredients to get something like Debra describes. I will not include the sourdough as it was only used to goose the flavour. 

Cheers,

Gavin

albacore's picture
albacore

Good luck with the red wheat. Funnily enough I think I have a preference for white, or perhaps a blend of the two.

Sometimes I find the flavour of the red to be rather strong, but of course in an enriched loaf like this then it's not a problem. And I only have experience of UK grown wheat, which no doubt has a different flavour profile to yours.

You can hardly get hold of white wheat in the UK. There is only one flour sold and no grain whatsoever - it sounds like the reverse of your situation!

 

Lance