Sweet levain 1st attempt
I was intrigued by Benitos recent bakes with a levain that contains brown sugar and decided to give it a go. It seemed to be a novel approach worth looking into. With many bakers around here pursuing Alt-sourdough lately I am surprised no one else has thrown their hat into the ring. Perhaps it turns away the purist or it's an aversion to sugar in the FWSY equation at least that was my thoughts.
I followed his overnight levain formula to the letter and my first surprise was that the so called 60% stiff WW levain was not stiff at all because the brown sugar acted more like water and the levain stirred up like a 100% starter. I put it in my new makeshift proofer and in the morning it was domed but flattened out shortly afterwards. I don't normally do an overnight levain build but rather a two stage build starting in the morning that ends up being shaped in the evening for an overnight proof in the fridge. For this bake I decide to just go straight through with a total time of around 7 hours from mixing to going into the oven
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I am using my typical country bread formula ala Tartine with a total flour of 450gr and 15% milled WW and a mixture of half BF and AP at +75% hydration. I got a little distracted and didn't do my normal interval kneading and early folding but after 4 and a half hours the dough was domed, had a jiggle to it. It seemed ready for shaping with bubbles on the surface and a sufficient increase in volume. The dough was billowy yet strong and was still on the move during the 30 minute bench rest after the pre shape. I felt pretty good that it was going to be a nice loaf.
My oven regime that I have settled on for the oven in our new home is 480F on bake for the first 20 minutes on a stone with a Granite ware roasting pan cover and then change to convection bake at 450 for the remainder uncovered. The oven spring was greater than my previous bakes but there was a hump at the top that I feared would reveal a large bubble under the crust.
My concern for the large hole in the crumb was confirmed when I cut into it and not only was there room for the baker to sleep but a spare room for the apprentice.
I don't think it was under-proofed but maybe I should have been a little more assertive during the pre shape. Perhaps it was from the lack of early folding but the large bubbles is something that hasn't happened to me in quite sometime.
The crust and crumb was light and soft and the flavor was not sour but I did detect a sweetness from the sugar and the toast made from it browned more than usual.
So that's it. I am going to try it again soon and I hope others will try it as well. Any technical questions should probably be directed towards Benny since it is his baby.
Comments
That is one nice loaf, Don even with two big holes. Too bad I don't have my SD starter anymore as I would try it out. I am working on a liquid SD starter which I guess I could add sugar and make levain out of it.
It’s nice to add another tool to the box and play around with different methods. This has merit and doesn’t require another jar in the fridge like the RYW that I just added to the repertoire. I have been following the flascapades worts and all(couldn’t resist) And I look forward to seeing what you do with it.
Nicely done Don. A question for you, my stiff sweet levain is looser feeling than a stiff levain at the same hydration as well, but not a loose as a 100% hydration levain. What was the flour used in your levain? I almost always use stoneground whole wheat and wonder if your levain felt looser because of the flour you used?
I agree with your assessment that your loaf wasn’t under fermented, those alveoli look like air trapped during shaping or folds.
I’m happy you tried this, it is a nice way of baking a non sour sourdough bread and with far less acid it should allow us to push fermentation further than usual without as much fear of over fermentation.
It was a lively dough and I was obviously too delicate with it but I did cradle it and fold it like closing a book before putting it in the basket but it resisted more this time than usual.
I used organic hard red spring wheat(Wheat Montana Bronze Chief) that I milled just before using. I did feed my rye starter with white flour before using it in the sweet levain.The only time I use a WW levain is for the whole grain Approachable pan loaf and it was somewhat similar to a 100% version of that. Next time I bake an Approachable loaf I plan on using this levain and deduct the sugar from the final dough.
I was impressed with the gassing power and the dough moved quickly once it got started. I don’t think it would have benefited from a cold retard in my case. I think Danayo should try this next for his Pullman loaf it might hit the sweet spot he is searching for.
I agree with you Don, it is yet another tool in the box for us bakers to use that doesn’t require another jar in the fridge. So if I want a naturally leavened bread without any discernible sour, I’ll use this type of levain. Also if I want to push fermentation further for example with a 100% whole grain bread that would normally over ferment and have gluten breakdown when pushed far, I’ll use this type of levain.
I’ll look forward to your bakes using the stiff sweet levain! Glad to see someone else jumping on this train.
Benny
Benny, have you tried the sweet levain technique to make any sweet breads, as a kind of LM substitute?
Lance
Not yet Lance, other than Hokkaido milk breads which have some but not a lot of sugar. Given the strength of the stiff sweet levain and the 77% concentration of sugar (grams of sugar/grams of water) there is no reason that it couldn’t make a good sweet bread, like cinnamon buns or highly enriched bread such as brioche.
Benny
Lovely loaf and think the crumb is super admirable.
Tell me for the record, what weight of sweet levain did you use in the recipe?
It's ticking all my boxes, 15% WW, granite baker etc. Need to give it a try too, although I am thinking full on Benny with WW Hokkaido. But you never know, once the idea is implanted it could get used in any recipe.
-Jon
I used Benny’s most recent egg bread blog for the ratio’s he used and worked from there. As I understand it the sugar ratio is quite specific and overall I’m guessing it is geared more towards WW. It also seemed to me that the sugar took some of the water out of the dough. Less custard like but more soft and dry. These are just my first impressions and I don’t want to read too much into one attempt. It would be nice to see you and other bakers playing with this mod. Good luck
Great looking loaf despite the two air bubbles! The rest of the crumb looks perfect.
Early conclusion is that you see the same thing Benny sees... Suppression of the LAB and extra activity by the yeast?
Yes, for sure more gassing power and a less sour taste. I never considered my bread to be very sour because I always tried to use a younger levain but this method and the especially the RYW does seem to hollow out the sour note in the flavor.
The rest of the loaf had no large holes
Perfect!
Lovely added crumb shots there.
I've done Benny's milk bread a couple times and it worked great. Will be interesting to keep this technique in mind.
I'd be curious about alternatives to brown sugar such as non-diastatic malt.
I have a very shallow understanding of the science of sourdough and rely more on intuition and repetition. I was wondering why white sugar couldn’t be used as well. Benny says the ratio of sugar to water is important and he would be the person to ask about the technical aspects of this method. I am going to try this again soon and make a few adjustments like lower the baking temperature because at 4% sugar the crust browned quickly. I will also add a little more water to the mix because the crumb was a little dry although it did make better toast than my normal sugar free bread.
Don
White sugar could definitely be used instead of brown. I haven’t done that yet, but eventually will try it. Brown sugar is more acid than white but it also has more water, so I think that using the same weight white sugar as brown will have a greater osmotic pressure effect on the microbes and thus slow them down even more, again favoring the yeast over LAB.
I’m not sure if diastatic malt would have the desired effect. I’m not sure how it would exert any osmotic effect on the microbes as it is an enzyme that we are adding. Although if will convert starches to simple sugars, I think that effect would take too long and that the LAB population would have grown during that lag time. I’m don’t know that for fact that that would make sense to me.
Benny
Hi Benny
I was saying non-diastatic malt. No enzyme action. It's quite sweet due to the enzymatic action breaking down starches within the grain before the enzymes are deactivated with heat.
So sorry David, I misread your post. I don’t have any non-diastatic malt so haven’t tried this instead of the sugar so have no experience with this.