So many questions... back to newbie status
It's been a couple years since I've been on here. Still a newbie. So many questions now that I get back into this bread baking.
1. I live on a remote Alaskan island. With friends who don't bake 100% whole wheat. Where can I find videos that teach well? Whole wheat is just different, you know? John Kirkwood seems excellent, but I'd like to hear from the wise folks here as to some good sources. Maybe I need to pony up and pay for an online course?
2. No matter whose recipe I use, I end up with dough all stuck to my fingers. If I add flour, I'm afraid of making a brick. Maybe I just went too crazy adding flour on that brick loaf I made? Or am I too afraid? Is that what is actually needed? This is a temperate rainforest here, so maybe I need to add flour to adjust to our, ahem, humdity?
3. I've seen instructions to flour the table, oil the table, lightly water the table...what do I do?
4. Peter Reinhart Whole Grain Breads: I said, oh cool. Hearth bread, plain whole wheat for me to try beyond a sandwich loaf. And it says I can shape it in batard, boule, rolls, whatever. Yay. So I glance back at the basic whole wheat sandwich loaf. Which can be shaped in any hearth shape I want if I don't want a sandwich loaf. Why is there a difference in the recipes? Maybe I just need to experiment?
5. What is the best kitchen scale? How low should the measurement go? I know I've had trouble before adding salt, and the measurement doesn't change. I believe it measures to a gram. So what if I need 1.5 grams of salt or something? Maybe I need a better scale?
6. Whole-grain-wise, is whole grain french bread even possible? Or is it just a hearth bread in a batard shape?
7. Is there a chart somewhere to help me find the baker's percentages on recipes where I'd like to see what kind of hydration I'm using. I can do math, but this would make it easier. Speaking of this, am I just looking flour/water measurements, ignoring salt, honey, yeast, herb measurements?
8. Do I always bake hearth bread on my stone? Or is that just for pizza? (Sigh...Pizza's a totally different topic, lol)
Welcome back! And greetings from AZ! 🏜️
Phew, that's a lot of questions, lol. I'm not a complete newbie anymore but not a veteran baker by any stretch. Do you want to bake with sourdough again or yeast? See if any of this helps....
- If sourdough, and you need to start a new starter, search on here for Debra Winks pineapple juice solution. It works really well.
- There are a lot of really helpful videos on YouTube. There are two that really built my confidence by having reasonably good results: Elly's Everyday uses sourdough and all whole grain. She mills her own, but says it also works for any whole wheat flour. She bakes in a loaf pan, covered casserole dish, dutch oven, or whatever else suits her. I have adopted her method of spraying the counter with a little water for shaping, it works for me. Steve Gamelin has a really easy night knead yeast bread. REALLY easy. And I just made it using 100% whole wheat. (Next time I would tweak what I did, but that's a different story.) You could try his method with 50% whole wheat just to get something tasty to eat while you mull over the approach you want to take. And both of those put bread on the table without ever getting your hands gummy with dough (unless you want to).
Oh and I use a scale I got at Walmart for about $15. It works great.
There's a lot more than these for sure, all sorts of in depth mixing and kneading, slap or stretch, recipes, flours, on it goes and it's great fun! But for a simple get something on the table sooner than later start, see what you think of those. ♥️
Mary
Hi, Mary. Yes, I want to try ww sourdough, but I want to use yeasted bread recipes for a while, to get back into the flow of bread baking and get questions answered. Elly’s Everyday is my first sourdough goal. But first, just making yeasted bread. :)
Hi, Mary. Yes, I want to try ww sourdough, but I want to use yeasted bread recipes for a while, to get back into the flow of bread baking and get questions answered. Elly’s Everyday is my first sourdough goal. But first, just making yeasted bread. :)
Vonilda,
1. I live on a remote Alaskan island. With friends who don't bake 100% whole wheat. Where can I find videos that teach well? Whole wheat is just different, you know? John Kirkwood seems excellent, but I'd like to hear from the wise folks here as to some good sources. Maybe I need to pony up and pay for an online course?
I have tried a few of the paid online courses, other than the Peter Reinhart class which was 5 hours for very little money, https://www.craftsy.com/class/artisan-bread-making/# I did not find the others worthwhile. You may want to search for some of the King Arthur online videos that they during the covid shut down, they were free.
2. No matter whose recipe I use, I end up with dough all stuck to my fingers. If I add flour, I'm afraid of making a brick. Maybe I just went too crazy adding flour on that brick loaf I made? Or am I too afraid? Is that what is actually needed? This is a temperate rainforest here, so maybe I need to add flour to adjust to our, ahem, humdity?
If you mean while handling the dough, then , dip your hands in water. As to hydration, a lot depends on your flour, but start in the 70 to 75% hydration range, and work you way up as you feel more comfortable.
3. I've seen instructions to flour the table, oil the table, lightly water the table...what do I do?
I have a thin slab of marble, I don't add anything to it, but you can try a bit of water if the table is too sticky- try a spray bottle, you don't need much , and some tension between the table and the dough is good.
4. Peter Reinhart Whole Grain Breads: I said, oh cool. Hearth bread, plain whole wheat for me to try beyond a sandwich loaf. And it says I can shape it in batard, boule, rolls, whatever. Yay. So I glance back at the basic whole wheat sandwich loaf. Which can be shaped in any hearth shape I want if I don't want a sandwich loaf. Why is there a difference in the recipes? Maybe I just need to experiment?
I have not gone back to reread those recipes, but in general, you can get away with a high hydration for a pan loaf than a boule, because the sides of the pan provide support for the loaf to go up rather than out.
5. What is the best kitchen scale? How low should the measurement go? I know I've had trouble before adding salt, and the measurement doesn't change. I believe it measures to a gram. So what if I need 1.5 grams of salt or something? Maybe I need a better scale?
Most electric scales are fine. Many have a My Weigh Scale https://www.amazon.com/My-Weigh-KD-7000-Kitchen-Digital/dp/B01G4EI5DE/ref=sr_1_8?dchild=1&keywords=My+Weigh&qid=1627826078&sr=8-8 but I have also purchased very inexpensive ones that work just as well. Most do not register small changes - so if you start to add salt, it will stay at zero, then jump to 3 grams, then 4, then 5 and work normally after that. One option is to buy a second scale for smaller measurements - something like this -https://www.amazon.com/Weigh-Gram-Digital-Jewelry-Kitchen/dp/B06Y61YW7S/ref=sr_1_4?dchild=1&keywords=scale+.01g&qid=1627826239&sr=8-4 , the other option is to use volume measurements https://www.amazon.com/Antrader-Stainless-4-Piece-Measuring-Smidgen/dp/B07P25YCXX/ref=sr_1_10?dchild=1&keywords=measuring+spoon+1%2F16&qid=1627826369&sr=8-10 This is especially useful for yeast since the weights are so small.
6. Whole-grain-wise, is whole grain french bread even possible? Or is it just a hearth bread in a batard shape?
Are you asking can you make whole grain baguettes?, yes that is possible, though it will have a different texture and taste that one made using french flour.
7. Is there a chart somewhere to help me find the baker's percentages on recipes where I'd like to see what kind of hydration I'm using. I can do math, but this would make it easier. Speaking of this, am I just looking flour/water measurements, ignoring salt, honey, yeast, herb measurements?
Correct, when we measure hydration, we just divide the total liquid by the total flour, ignore the salt and herb. Yeast gets more complicated if you are using a sourdough starter, because it is flour and water and there are different approaches on how to treat that. As to recipes, often it will say what the hydration is, if not, yes, just do the math.
8. Do I always bake hearth bread on my stone? Or is that just for pizza? (Sigh...Pizza's a totally different topic, lol)
Pizza is a different topic. Yes, most here would bake hearth bread on a stone if they have a stone, though others would bake it in a dutch oven.
I will also throw in a few questions you didn't ask
Pizza is much easier than bread, you don't have to worry as much about getting bulk fermentation or final proof spot on, as long as you cook the pizza at a high heat - say above 600, it should taste fine.
Try not to fall down the instagram rabbit hole. If you make a loaf and it taste good, but does not look as pretty as some you have seen, ask yourself whether you would rather have bread that looks really good but taste is so so, or a loaf that looks so so, but tastes really good.
The best advice is to take a recipe from a decent source, and just make that one recipe over and over again until you feel you have it perfected. Many try a recipe, don't get great results, then switch. Instead, you should get more progress if you make it as written a few times to get the feel, then slowly make some changes - increase the hydration, or increase bulk ferment time, or shorten final proof, and keep a log of what changes you make and how they turned out. While it is best to start with a whole wheat recipe, if you were in love with a recipe that was for bread flour, just make it a few times using bread flour, than the next 4 or 5 times slowly increase the amount of whole wheat and decrease the amount of bread flour, while you make changes to try to replicate how the dough felt when it was just bread flour - increasing hydration and shortening bulk fermentation and final proof are some of the changes you may try. Good luck.
Hi Vonilda!
Welcome back to baking! And to the FreshLoaf too, of course : ) 🥰
I don't know if whole wheat is that different. If you follow the recipe specifically for whole wheat flour everything will be all right. There is no difference in handling dough or bread per se. Just avoid using white flour recipes and directly substituting whole wheat flour, It won't work that well.
If your dough is sticky, pay attention to your flour, not how much flour, but the kind of flour that you are using. If you buy specifically bread flour, for example King Arthur whole wheat bread flour, then even if it is whole wheat or whole grain, it won't stick like glue. If you buy freshly milled or mill yourself, then it would stick not matter what.
If the recipe tells you to flour the table, then flour it. If the recipe tells you to oil the table, then oil it. Watering the table also works for certain breads and certain effects. Just follow the recipe.
Shaping the same piece of dough into different shapes or baking/ cooking it differently will give you remarkably different results. It could be baked, baked on hearth, in a tin, in a closed tin, as rolls, as flat breads, as pizzas or focaccias, and as crackers or bread sticks, as giant loaves, steamed, fried or even boiled as in bagels. It is just one way to create completely different breads and pastries and even cookies and crackers from the same bread dough.
Depending on what you bake and how, you might need a smaller or larger scale and one or two scales. I bake a lot in a bread machine where precise measurements of flour and yeast is important, so I use 2 scales: Escali Primo for flour and other major ingredients (precision 1g), and Escali Pico for yeast or if salt is 1.5g as you say (precision 0.1g).
Yes, whole grain French bread is possible. Why not? Batard is nor just a shape.
Yes, bakers percentage or baker's hydration is just water and flour, nothing else. Let's say 20 g water and 100g flour. 20/100= 20% hydration. Your dough might have tons of eggs, butter, sugar, or sourcream which will make it very soft or even liquid, but hydration according to baker's math would still be only 20%.
Absolute hydration would account for water even in sugar and salt, but no one uses it in home baking, not necessary.
Hearth breads require some thick hot surface. No, not necessarily a stone. It could be a cast iron skillet, Dutch oven, or something else altogether. I would say you could perfectly well bake hearth breads on a regular aluminum baking sheet under a Pyrex bowl as well. No difference whatsoever, for as long as you don't grease that baking sheet.
Godspeed!
m.