The Fresh Loaf

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Panettone Help: Oven spring is non-existent

JazzyBake's picture
JazzyBake

Panettone Help: Oven spring is non-existent

Hello, I'm currently trying to troubleshoot my Panettone. Everything seems perfectly find from what I can tell up until the final dough. After Placing it into the mold, I find that it takes nearly 12-13 Hours for the dough to rise to the rim of the paper mold (even in a warm oven with the light on) and when I go to bake it, the oven spring is very minimal (maybe 1 inch)

the 50% hydration starter itself can easily triple in volume within 4 hours and during the first rise the dough has absolutely no issue growing to nearly 6X its original size in 12 hours. 

 

Here is the recipe I use:

FIRST DOUGH:

235g Bread Flour

125g Water

36g Egg yolks

55g Sugar

5g Malt

55g Butter

60g 50% Hydration Starter

1/4 Tsp Instant Yeast

 

---12 Hour Rise---

 

FINAL DOUGH:

First dough

55g Bread Flour

40g Water

16g Egg Yolks

Orange Zest

Vanilla

54g Sugar

83g Butter

12g honey

3g Salt

190g Fruits/candied peel

for the final dough, I incorporate the ingredients in the following order (First Dough + bread flour + water + Egg yolk + Zest) -> (Sugar gradually) -> (Butter Gradually) -> (Honey + Vanilla) -> (Fruits/Candied peel)

By the time I incorporate everything into the second dough I get an extremely elastic dough and a nice window pane test. When doing pre-shaping/shaping I will say that it is a little more slack than I would like it to be. I may try to incorporate more stretch and folds in the future. 

The dough is divided into 500g balls, shaped, and then placed into molds with a diameter of 3.75 inches and height of 5.25 inches. Once it reaches the rim (after 12+ hours) I bake at 350 F for 30-35 Minutes until the inside is 185+ F

I'm not entirely sure what adjustments need to be made. I see some recipes call for mixing times of 30+ minutes but that seems ludicrous and would lead to overworking the dough right? I'm also not sure if maybe my molds are too large but the ones I ordered specifically state they are for 500g.

I feel that the issue has to be occurring during the mixing of the final dough.

If you have any ideas or tips they would be greatly appreciated. 

 

Yippee's picture
Yippee

could be a possible culprit. 6x seems too much. Skip the dry yeast will slow it down. Save some energy for the 2nd dough. 

On the other hand, oven spring to 1-in above is not bad, considering where the dough is at the beginning of the fermentation--probably just halfway of the mold. Your formula appears to be appropriate for the size of the mold, but the final proofing time doesn't seem right. I'd also pay attention to the temperature at which you final prove to see if it needs to be adjusted.

Yippee

 

P.S.This discussion may be helpful, too.

JazzyBake's picture
JazzyBake

Thanks for the tip. for the past attempts I have been storing the first dough in an oven with the light on for 12 hours. I was concerned about it being too cool since its winter (around 70 F in my house) and a lot of recipes say proof at 80 F. Next time I'll try leaving it at room temperature to proof and reduce the dry yeast so it doesn't waste all of its energy too quickly and see how that goes. for the final proof I also put it in the oven with the light on. 

CharlotteS's picture
CharlotteS

JazzyBake


I’m no expert, but I’ve been obsessed with trying to improve my panettone baking this holiday season and have learned a lot from the folks on this forum.  When I’ve made panettone, the final proof takes me around five or six hours at 80-85 degrees, so your 12-hour proof seems long—but I’m not sure it matters if the result is good. I generally don’t get a lot of oven spring since the second dough has already risen so much before I put it in the oven, yet I think the overall result is still good with a light airy crumb. So your 1-inch rise doesn’t seem that troublesome to me. How did your panettone turn out? Is the taste and crumb good? Show us a picture of the loaf and the crumb (and of how it looked before it went into the oven if you have one). 

 

I agree with Yippee that a 6x rise for the first dough seems like a lot, and that you might be overproofing it. I have had that problem—overproofing the first dough—so I stopped adding any yeast (just use starter) and I now get a better result overall. You also may not be developing the second dough sufficiently (something else I used to have a problem with)—I find that with 1000 grams of dough and an older 5 quart Kitchen Aid it takes at least 45 minutes to mix in all the ingredients and develop the gluten fully (using only speeds 1 and 2). Maybe overproofing the first dough and/or failing to fully develop the gluten in the second dough is causing the final proof to take so long and limiting your oven spring?

You might find it helpful to look at a post I made of my last panettone bake that has pictures of the dough at various stages:  https://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/67078/panettone and a blog entry I made detailing my process: https://www.thefreshloaf.com/blog/charlottes


Hope this is helpful

Charlotte

 

JazzyBake's picture
JazzyBake

Here is a photo of the 500g panettone. By the time I had first made the post I had already finished proving the first dough but for this one I also included 5 sets of stretch and folds in 15 minute intervals in addition to the dough mixer for the second dough before placing it into the mold so I don't believe my gluten structure should be compromised. ignore the large air pockets at the top, I just didn't bother popping them before going into the oven because i wasn't expecting them to do well regardless.