The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

Increasing ingredients - impact on gluten development

cch099's picture

Increasing ingredients - impact on gluten development

My challenge is developing gluten/passing a windowpane test when baking 2 sourdough boules (increasing the original ingredients but keeping the baker %) without kneading.

I've tried the following (Sourdough with Tangzhong), and can't seem to get good gluten development at the end of BF with only coil folds.   Basically, at the end of the 3 hours of 30 minute interval coil folds, it tears in the middle and/or it doesn't appear to be developed enough.   I have to hand knead/rubaud method in the bowl in order to get good enough gluten development.  It usually takes 40/50 minutes to knead.

Questions for experienced sourdough bakers:

1) When doubling ingredients does it require 2x much coil folds/stretch and folds and/or other considerations to develop the dough?

2) What do you do to troubleshoot at the end of Bulk ferment and the gluten doesn't appear to be developed enough?  To troubleshoot, I hand knead, and it destroys the gluten develop so far, and then the 40/50 of hand kneading rebuilds it back.

The boules turned out quite nicely.   But - it seems like I always panic at the end of the BF when the only doing s&f or coil folds and the dough isn't developed enough.

For example, my steps below:

Levain  - I premade this and put in the fridge 3 days earlier when it doubled.   I soak the jar in warm water until it was warm to the touch before adding it to the dough.

40g Starter

40g - AP Flour  (Superstore, store bought, Unbleached, AP)


40g - WW Flour  (Superstore, store bought)


80g - Warm Water 




  • 68 g AP flour
  • 341 g water



  • 700 g AP flour
  • 221 g WW flour
  • 483 g water
  • 196 g levain
  • 21 g salt


Autolyze (only flour and water):


From: 1:39pm

To: 3:10pm

  • Coil and fold 2 hours, started to tear in the middle, so I started to  for  approx. 1 hour to finish dough development
  • Bf finished at 11:30pm
  • Preshape for 30  minutes - dough kept shape
  • Proof in oven with light for 1 hour
  • In fridge at 1am
  • Baked direct from fridge next day at 11:29 am
  • Preheat at 500 dutch oven for 36 minutes,
  • Bake 25 min covered @500, then 25 uncovered @ 375, and 20 minutes removed from DO at 375 (trying not to have a crunchy crust)






DanAyo's picture

I strongly suspect the quality of the flour. Have you considered that?

Have you seen THIS LINK?