The Fresh Loaf

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Slap and fold failure - too much or too little

Tropical's picture
Tropical

Slap and fold failure - too much or too little

Hi

Looking for any insight from you kind folks

Trying slap and fold for the first time. 80% hydration, 10% rye. Just would not come together. Must have done 400 over 20 to 30 mins with a rest in between

Get the dough going fine, starts to tighten up after 50. Keep going starts to get a bit sticky. Do a 5.min rest after about 150. Start slap and folding again, maybe do another 200 but the dough feels weak and just won't come together.

Any ideas what I am doing wrong? Should I have kept going or did I do too much?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ilya Flyamer's picture
Ilya Flyamer

What flour is the 90%?

Tropical's picture
Tropical

Canadian Strong Bread Flour from Shipton Mill

Ilya Flyamer's picture
Ilya Flyamer

Oh this should be very strong. Strange, maybe someone will have other ideas.

You can try lowering the hydration, slap&folds have a limit with high hydration, and generally 80% is pretty high. But with a strong flour like that I thought it would work fine... Whenever the dough feels too soupy for slap&folds, switch to Rubaud mixing, that's perfect for very wet dough. Or do nothing and just stretch&folds would be enough :)

Ilya Flyamer's picture
Ilya Flyamer

Another good trick is developing gluten with lower hydration, and then mixing in more water (aka bassinage).

Tropical's picture
Tropical

I was mindful that it essentially goes firm, then loosens before coming back together. But I was stuck in the phase of it not coming back together.

I use this flour combo and hydration for stretch and fold technique with no issues so fairly confident it is more my technique than that.

My only thought is maybe bring too liberal with water on hands when performing the slap and folds. 

Again, it was no more than when I do stretches but maybe it's more of an issue with slaps

Ilya Flyamer's picture
Ilya Flyamer

Yeah at certain level of hydration slap&folds just stop working. Maybe it would be fine just after half an hour autolyse? Another option to try, if you want. But if your process works with just stretch &folds, why not stick to it?

Tropical's picture
Tropical

Yeah, the thought did occur at the time but I had a very small baking window today. 

 

I just wanted to try some new techniques really. 

loydb's picture
loydb

I second the recommendation for allowing 30-45 minute rests for autolyse between sessions. I do a minimum of three, usually on a half hour schedule.

 

 

Tropical's picture
Tropical

hi, thanks for your response loydb

Could you type out briefly your schedule?

I tend to autolyse before kneading, stretches etc, so curious as.to.when you schedule your three autolyse periods?

Tropical's picture
Tropical

hi, thanks for your response loydb

Could you type out briefly your schedule?

I tend to autolyse before kneading, stretches etc, so curious as.to.when you schedule your three autolyse periods?

loydb's picture
loydb

Initially, I mix everything until just combined, then leave it for 45 minutes to an hour. Then another 8-10 minutes in the machine until I've got a well-developed dough. I do a couple of stretch and folds, then cover with film wrap.

In 30 minutes, do another stretch and fold. Two if it's still slack.

Wait 30 minutes, do it again.

If the dough feels good at this point, I then leave it alone to bulk ferment, usually overnight in the fridge, but otherwise, at least 4 hours total. If it doesn't feel right, another round of stretch and fold.

Shape, put in bannetons, allow to rise for 90 minutes or so (longer if they're cold out of the fridge).

 

 

Tropical's picture
Tropical

Thanks fella. I'm already do autolyse with stretches similar to your schedule. This thread was for slap and fold rather than stretches.

loydb's picture
loydb

I typed stretch. I *do* slap & fold :) ooops.

 

 

Tropical's picture
Tropical

Ha... autocorrect

Tropical's picture
Tropical

I revisited this weekend, two loaves in two days. Used no water on my bench and worked both times. Think using too much water was my issue.

phaz's picture
phaz

Water is a funny thing - gotta have it to form gluten, and too much inhibits it. Enjoy