The Fresh Loaf

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How to get a feathery vegan panettone

amandaharumi's picture
amandaharumi

How to get a feathery vegan panettone

I'm trying to make a vegan panettone with natural yeast, but i only got a small and tight holes and not very shreaddable. I'm using Martino Beria's recipe, translating with google translate which might not be very correspondent. His panettones photo looks amazing and i really wanted to get something similar as i can't find a really good vegan panettone to buy near me. 

semolina_man's picture
semolina_man

Can you post a link to photos or the recipe that you refer to?  I searched and didn't find it. 

When you say "large holes", can you post a link to a photo of what you mean?  Large holes and highly enriched dough like panettone aren't generally found together. 

Do you know that in its original form, panettone is a highly enriched dough, similar to brioche?   This means butter and eggs.  These are fundamental elements of panettone. 

Feathery and "shreddable" means the gluten is well developed.  This means significant kneading.  

A vegan "panettone" will not resemble the original.  Panettone is not vegan. 

 

amandaharumi's picture
amandaharumi

and here is how i want, of couse not exactly like it, but something similar, doesn't have to be really big holes but something that looks like a panettone https://www.instagram.com/p/B5cQZuCofgJ/ this is a vegan panettone from the author of this recipe.

I do know that a traditional recipe for panettone is high in butter and egg yolk, I've made once and it was great. But I really wanted to try a vegan recipe, and it is almost impossible to find one that actually looks like the traditional one, like on this link that i sent. Most of the recipes that i found don't match on these topics that i find as fundamental in a panettone.

About the feathery and shreddable, those are on specifics bread, right? I mean, is not just the kneading, this is related also to the ingredients, right? cause it is impossible to have these kind of crumb in a rustic bread that are high in hydration and only have water, flour, salt and levain... Am i right? This is a genuine question, cause I've started baking sourdough bread not long ago and I still don't get some things about it.

Having a crumb that shreds reminds me a bit of hokkaido bread (shokupan), and i've made it vegan and the texture results were just like the ones with eggs and butter.

I originally thought that it was impossible, but seeing this photo and others around the internet, I do think it is possible. But I don't have enough knowledge about sourdough bread to develop it.

 

 

 

 

semolina_man's picture
semolina_man

Panettone is a highly enriched dough, with butter and eggs, both non-vegan.  The properties of the animal protein contribute to the feathery and shreddable crumb.  Plus gluten development, from the kneading process. 

I question whether the photograph from Instagram was a vegan product.   To make a product like the one pictured in the link above requires kneading and animal products.

Using vegan egg yolks (what are they made of) and vegan butter (what is it made of), I can't see the end result resembling anything like panettone, or the photo you provided the Instagram link for. 

My opinion is that you are seeking something that doesn't exist.  Maybe someone else will post another view on this. 

amandaharumi's picture
amandaharumi

the panettone in the photo is definitely vegan, chef Martino Beria is vegan.

It is possible to find vegan croissant, doughnuts, macarons, cookies and many other recipes. The recipe being high in an animal product makes a bit more difficult to find out the right substitutions and proportions but it doesn't mean that it is not possible.

angie.lcc's picture
angie.lcc

Hi I am trying to make sourdough vegan panettone and came across your post. Would you mind telling me how he made the vegan egg yolk in this recipe? Thanks!

amandaharumi's picture
amandaharumi

i'm not sure if this is the one he used but i found his recipe for vegan egg yolk here https://www.pasticciandoconlafranca.it/2019/lievitati/brioche-al-gusto-panettone/

Have you tried any recipe yet? How is it going?

DoughJoe's picture
DoughJoe

amandaharumi, I hope your journey into vegan Panettone is going well! I just wanted to set something strait for the record to make sure credit is given where it is due.

Although it does seem from his instagram account that @chef_baria does make some good looking panettone of his own that is vegan, the photo above on the IG post that you linked to was not made by him, nor is it vegan.  The panettone in that photo was made by one of the world's most renowned panettone bakeries - From Roy.  Roy Shvartzapel is the man behind this business that operates out of the bay area in California.   

It's hard to explain but as soon as I clicked your link and saw the photo I knew that panettone was one of Roy's - he just has a certain style that is unmistakable to me.  A quick google image search confirmed this; I just typed in "panettone roy" and this was the second image result -  https://www.foodgal.com/2016/11/from-roys-or-the-story-of-the-50-panettone/

Does the photo look familiar?  It was taken by the website and article's author, Carolyn Jung. In 2016.

I'm sorry you were mislead by chef_barias post into thinking it was a panettone made by him.  In my opinion that type of post by him is pretty unethical as he hasn't credited either the photographer or the baker of the panettone in the photo, and he's used that photo on his IG twice.

Anyway, like I said at first, I just wanted credit to be given where it was due.  I don't think this should deter you from you vegan panettone quest; I think it's a very worthwhile endeavour and I hope you've made some good headway.  Happy Baking!

DoughJoe's picture
DoughJoe

@chef_beria - not Baria.  Sorry 

amandaharumi's picture
amandaharumi

Hi, thank you for letting me know! I've seen Roy's but didn't even linked with the one in the picture from the post, and actually seems to have been deleted from his instagram... Anyway, thank you for letting me know! Also, thank you for being supportive, people here seems to be a bit judgemental about doing things not on the traditional way...

ahbramey's picture
ahbramey

I think it's less that people are "judgmental" of not doing things the traditional way, and more that many people on this forum (at least from my observation) do not appear to be well-versed in how it would work to veganize recipes that traditionally include a lot of eggs and dairy. I've never made panettone (and don't think it's something I'll attempt anytime soon), but I cook and bake exclusively vegan and have made things like Hokkaido milk bread, brioche, challah, etc. completely vegan with great results that omnivore loved ones have really enjoyed. I think many people don't bother to experiment with vegan baking unless they or a loved one are vegan, so that's where some of the skepticism that it could possibly work likely comes from.

That said, I do think for less experienced vegan bakers, it would likely require a lot of trial and error to start with a "traditional" recipe that's dairy or egg heavy and make substitutions to create a vegan version. I think you're better off trying to find an already vegan recipe for this (as you seem to be doing). When I googled "vegan sourdough panettone", most of the results appear to be recipes using commercial yeast. I wonder if you would have more success getting some advice from the bakers on here if you asked people how they'd modify a recipe using commercial yeast to use sourdough starter? I am nowhere near qualified enough to advise you on this, but at minimum you'd need to adjust the amounts of flour/water in the recipe to accommodate your levain and you'd need to build in more time for fermentation/proofing. 

There was a discussion recently in a different part of the forum about people struggling to successfully make enriched sourdough breads, so if you end up finding a panettone recipe that you're happy with, please do share! I'd love to hear what you learn from the experience. 

ol's picture
ol
amandaharumi's picture
amandaharumi

Have you tried this recipe yet?

ol's picture
ol

not yet but building up the sourdough starter.