The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

Comparing Famag IM-10S vs Doyon EM20 (Apples to Oranges but valid)

Levixmo's picture
Levixmo

Comparing Famag IM-10S vs Doyon EM20 (Apples to Oranges but valid)

Hi TFL's Bakers,

I am a bit confused after comparing the specs of the Famag IM-10S and the Doyon EM20, they are both 110/120V.

I am aware the Famag is a spiral mixer, and the Doyon is a planetary mixer. However, they could potentially perform the same job mixing dough for artisan bread between 50% and 80% hydration. 

While the horsepower ratings and the bowl capacities of these two mixers are vastly different they both seem to be able to hold a similar amount of total dough weight at 60% AR. 

  • Famag IM-10S  -- 14 Qt - 22 lbs / 10 kg of dough bread at 60% hydration
  • Doyon EM20  -- 20 QT - 20 lbs / 9 kg of dough bread at 60% hydration

I am in the market for a new mixer for bread doughs. Perhaps there is someone in these forums that can explain to me how can these two mixers handle about the same dough weight with such different bowl capacities and horsepower, please?   

Thanks!

 

albacore's picture
albacore

I suspect that with a planetary and with the way its dough hook works, the maximum dough level probably cannot be much above half way up or the dough won't circulate properly, up and down wise, whereas I've seen plenty of pictures of spirals practically overflowing! And a planetary bowl has to have a taller aspect ratio for the dough hook to work.

Spiral probably more efficient by its design, moving less of the dough piece at any one time.

Lance

Levixmo's picture
Levixmo

Thanks Lance,  

I rewatched the demo videos and what you are saying makes perfect sense. 

While the planetary mixers are more versatile, there seems to be a clear advantage to using a spiral mixer for bread dough, less HP and less bowl capacity are needed to handle similar amounts of dough.

Jaime 

deblacksmith's picture
deblacksmith

One of my frustrations with equipment data is horsepower ratings.  What you really need to know is the current draw in amps at normal running (not starting or stall current)  real horsepower is defined in kilowatts measured by current in amps times volts.  So if the volts (and phase) are the same then a good comparison is amp rating.  This data is often found in the specs.

This all started years ago with some marketing nut (and I mean to be disrespectful to marketing types) at Sears pushing their tools by saying "this shop vacuum developes  5 HP".  Which meant that was the horsepower calculated at stall as the motor burned up.  Not a very useful number unless you like to buy a new shop vac.

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

That is useful information...

Danny

barryvabeach's picture
barryvabeach

While I agree that much of the hp info is just marketing,  even if you know watts or amps, that is only of a limited use in comparing machines even if they use the same process.   So if you looked at two KA's with different wattage, that could give you an idea of which is more powerful, but the same would not be true if one was a planetary and the other was a spiral. 

deblacksmith's picture
deblacksmith

The horsepower thing is just a pet peeve of mine.

I think that one major difference between the planetary and spiral mixers is the amount of energy that goes into heating of the dough between the two types of mixers.  With some planetary mixers so much of the energy goes into heating of the dough that some bakers use ice water in their mix to keep the dough from becoming too warm.  Spiral mixers do much less of this heating. Again in my opinion that is one of the major reasons most large commercial mixers for dough are spiral. 

Since I now bake only for two people I have gone back to 100 percent hand mixing.  This is true even if I am a equipment type of guy.  Not only mixing by hand but really mixing by hand - I only use a wet hand to mix, not even a spoon any more.

GrainBrain's picture
GrainBrain

In a past life, I was a product manager for electric motors, which meant giving endless presentations to customers about comparing motor performance among motors having the SAME nominal horsepower ratings. 
It is unlikely you will be able to make a meaningful comparison without knowing the actual work, or torque, a motor can produce at various speeds. Not all speeds are meaningful in certain applications, such as mixing dough.
Terms such as watts and amps are measures of the energy consumed in making a shaft spin at a given speed without necessarily producing the same twisting force, or torque, as another motor at the same speed.
A less expensive motor design generally develops equivalent torque by turning the shaft at a higher speed. You may therefore get your horsepower on a test bench, but not at the desired speed for mixing your dough.
For the record, I own a FAMAG IM-5S. The torque at the lowest speed is phenomenal from a subjective standpoint. The amount of heat produced by this motor is not something I worry about as affecting motor life.
More importantly, and the KEY POINT of this post, is that the rise in temperature of the dough during mixing is minimal, and to me that is far more important than any data on horsepower.
A spiral mixer with a breaker bar appears to be the most power efficient method of mechanically mixing dough. But If either or both machines perform well at desired mixing speeds, the buying decision should not be made on the basis of horsepower. I would be more concerned about the strength of planetary gears and how they will hold up over time. Another factor you sadly are unlikely to learn from product literature. High strength gears are extremely expensive to cut, they can be trusted in an industrial machine probably, but introduce yet one more variable into a buying equation.

Levixmo's picture
Levixmo

Thank you Lance, deblacksmith, DanAyo, barryvabeach, and GrainBrain for your detailed and insightful responses.  

I am leaning towards the Famag IM-10S, but I recently learned about the SunMix 15 and 20 mixers which offer even more capacity and also use 110v. So, I just added another option to my decision-making process. It is a good problem to have though.  

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

Levi, the larger mixers are not much higher in price, so I gave thought to the IM-10S. BUT, if you plan to do small batches, the IM-5 will handles less dough. Also the weight and size of these machines should be considered. The IM-5 weighs 66 pounds. It doesn’t sound that heavy until you try moving it.

If any of the above are not issues with you, then go for the larger models.

I choose the Famag because Pleasant Hill Grain imports and distributes them. Through the years on every item they sell, my experience with their customer services has been over the top...

When it comes to bread dough, spiral mixers are superb. 

Danny

Levixmo's picture
Levixmo

Thank you Danny,

The IM-10S will get me "closer" to the flour/dough capacity I am looking for. Actually, I really wanted to order the IM-15 instead, unfortunately, that machine is 230V and I only have 110v available. 

I know there are step-up transformers in the market but I am not sure how will they affect its performance and the manufacturer's warranty. 

That is good to hear. I am looking forward to dealing with Pleasant Hill Grain. 

GrainBrain's picture
GrainBrain

Would like to add a strong echo to Danny's comment. I believe a consideration in a major purchase is who stands behind it. I have purchased both a FAMAG and an Ankarsrum from Pleasant Hill, in addition to other equipment. While I found them unmatched to deal with as a company, I wanted to confirm my hunch through an in person visit. Last Summer I visited Pleasant Hill Grain to see for myself. I was shown the very first FAMAG they received and they were extremely enthusiastic about it. I remember it was painted a strange dark green that is not in the current product line. In that moment I was rather surprised to think anyone would pay that amount of money for a machine that does absolutely nothing else but mix dough. I am no longer laughing.
I can say that the caliber of people they employ and the product knowledge each has would surprise you in the most positive sense of the word. It's a family business run by very ethical people. I can also add that the grain starts growing literally where the parking lot ends! They are the real thing and my visit left no doubt.

Levixmo's picture
Levixmo

Thank you GrainBrain! 

I have read many good comments with respect to PHG, which makes me feel more comfortable about buying a Famag instead of a Sunmix because I don't really know anything about their US distributor. 

I will be running 75% hydration bread dough batches close to the max capacity of the IM-10S, between 20 and 21 lbs. I trust it will be up to the task.